1. New to the board or trying to figure out how something works here? Check out the User Guide.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Hot Topics is open from 8:30 AM - 4 PM ET Mon - Fri.

    Dismiss Notice
  3. The message board is closed between the hours of 4pm ET Friday and 8:30am Monday.
    As always, the Board will be open to read and those who have those privileges can still send private messages and post to Profiles.
    Dismiss Notice

Demon Possession?

Discussion in 'Chattery Teeth (Other)' started by staropeace, Jan 28, 2014.

  1. staropeace

    staropeace Richard Bachman's love child

  2. Lina

    Lina Committed member

    I don't know if I truly believe in demon possession... I guess I do, especially after this movie, The Rite. I think it transfers the most important idea - if you don't believe in anything supernatural, that's alright. But, for example, if you believe in God, it means you believe in demons and devil, as neither could exist without the other. We can't believe only in the good (we can believe it wins, that's for sure), but still, if there is the good, there is the bad.
    In my favorite Master and Margarita by Mikhail Bulgakov there also was a great phrase: “But would you kindly ponder this question: What would your good do if
    evil didn't exist, and what would the earth look like if all the shadows
    disappeared? After all, shadows are cast by things and people. Here is the
    shadow of my sword. But shadows also come from trees and living beings.
    Do you want to strip the earth of all trees and living things just because
    of your fantasy of enjoying naked light?”
  3. WesleyGman

    WesleyGman Well-Known Member

    If I were a person who believed in possession, it would be a rare occurrence. It would be something that can only happen to certain people who are weak perhaps mentally or emotionally for some reason or vice that hinders their lives. I'm definitely what you would call a religious person though I do not always reflect as such. But if possession were a real thing, then it would have to be so under the radar that few people could believe in it. I think that maybe there are people who are able to fight away such things - - if it were real. I also believe that you have to believe in it on some level for it to take effect. Not saying I'm 100% buying into anything like The Exorcist, but not selling demon possession yet. I can certainly see why someone would dismiss the idea.
  4. Walter Oobleck

    Walter Oobleck keeps coming back...or going, and going, and going

    Saw a brief discussion on teevee last night. The kid walking up the wall backwards? Strange. There were at least two or maybe it was three who saw this happen. Possession? I dunno. Something strange. I think there are people in the world who embrace evil. I know that virtue is persecuted by the wicked more than it is loved by the good, true in Cervantes' day, true in our day. I believe there are people in power now as there has been in the past, people who are truly evil. I think those who embrace evil are embraced by evil.

    GNTLGNT The idiot is IN

    ...I lean toward belief in the paranormal...and in this case, the law enforcement officer that fled after hearing voices, and then one came across his car radio???...that isn't power of suggestion, that's just uber-creepy...
  6. ZombieDrama

    ZombieDrama Well-Known Member

    "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy" As a paranormal investigator, I just have dealt with too many weird things for there not to be some kind of mystery/paranormal going on. =)
    The strongest case for possession in my personal opinion was the 'Exorcist' case. That case that Blatty turned into a movie, brought * a lot* of folks back to the church once they saw it. Which fuels the theory that folks can be swayed by a movie or events. Deeper research led me to personally believe it was a true case of demonic possession. *clicks link* oh heck that's in Indiana? O.O
  7. staropeace

    staropeace Richard Bachman's love child

    See, Lina, I do not believe that if you believe in a Superior Being that you have to believe in demons. Faith is a subjective thing. It differs from one person to another. I know Catholic priests who have a hard time believing in devils.
    I think the belief in Possession is a dangerous belief that should be left back in the Middle ages. Nowadays we have mental health professionals who can help and explain atypical behaviour.
    I think suggestion can work on more than one or two people at any given time. If you want to see a certain behaviour, you will see it and interpret things in that mindframe. JMP
  8. ghost19

    ghost19 "Have I run too far to get home?"

    Anything I watch on TV I'm critical of as far as demonic possession. So called "documentaries" can be doctored, altered, enhanced or otherwise made to look like something they are not. I do have quite a bit of experience witnessing paranoid schizophrenia and I'll say this, that is the scariest thing I've ever witnessed in my life. Waking up from a restless sleep to see a loved one standing over your bed staring at you with no recognition in their eyes of who you are is terrifying. Having that same person tell you to your face they are going to kill you the next time you go to sleep because they think you are injecting them with heroin is even more disheartening. Scariest thing that has ever happened in my life. It literally seemed like the person was someone else. Bad deal.
  9. ZombieDrama

    ZombieDrama Well-Known Member

    I forgot to like the post I can't believe it lol I wanted to read the link first then forgot to click like after. o_O I noticed because I came back to say I thought it was a cool story, it happened in the state I was born and raised in, so I thought I would Tweet it to my whopping 74 Twitter followers. xD Used a couple hashtags, someone saw it, an author, turned around and retweeted it to her approx 8000 followers. O.O
  10. Liselle

    Liselle Well-Known Member

    I read about that in our paper and it was very strange since the house has been sold and no more weirdness which seems to point to the fact that it was the girls who were attracting the activity. The fact that at least three people saw the girl walking up the wall backwards seems to make it more believable. Can't explain how she managed to do that but then some things in life are unexplainable.
  11. Christine62

    Christine62 Well-Known Member

    I do not believe in demon possession or evil from a being that is equal to God. All Good comes from God and all bad comes from us. Evil is a choice we humans make or a result of illness or lack of education etc. No one is born evil. God created us noble beings and also gave us free will and is hoping we choose wisely. It is because of our wrong choices individually and collectively that evil exists in the world. IE we spend a billion dollars on the super bowl every year instead of finding a cure for mental illness. We choose to allow guns in the hands of everyone and then are stunned when some mentally imbalanced ostracized soul kills 24 small children in a Elementary school because we as a nation were so busy with the superbowl or spending a gazillion dollars on political campaigns instead of channeling our resources to find out what will prevent mental illness or cure alzhiemers. Yes there is an enemy and he or she is US.
  12. Christine62

    Christine62 Well-Known Member

    I hear you, friend. The human brain does so freaky deaky things--no drugs required. I know from the inside out. But I fought my way out of that other world my mind created and am happy to say I am med free and I have learned strategies that have allowed me never to go back there.
    arista, staropeace, Neesy and 2 others like this.
  13. doowopgirl

    doowopgirl very avid fan

    I believe that some cases of 'possesion' or haunting are the result of suggestion. I do agree with what a lot of you have said here. Beleif in a higher being suggest an opposite. I do think a closed mind is the worst thing you can have.
  14. Christine62

    Christine62 Well-Known Member

    We can't know God--God is the UNKNOWABLE ESSENCE. The only way we can know God is through His Messengers most of which came before writing was invented but a few have left records, Moses, Zoroaster, Jesus, Muhammad, Krishna, Buddha etc. Now if you look at what they said as absolute truth then yeah I guess there is a boogyman but if you look at it as Relative Truth based on who they were teaching--very simple minded people. You can explain the science of thunder to a child with graphs and charts and math to go with it but you will get a deer in headlights--so you say "God is mad." or "Satan is screaming" or "It's a monster." We have science (which is a gift from God--all knowledge is) to explain things that used to be explained by Satan. And yes suggestion is a very very powerful thing--we just eat that **** up.
  15. Chuggs

    Chuggs Well-Known Member

    Suggestion is very powerful, as is the brain. God created all of us, whether or not he created good and evil or if they just are, as God just is, I don't know. To be good there must be evil. I think that there is probably such a thing as demon possession, and perhaps other things that can possess, both good and evil things. But I don't think that just anyone gets possessed. I think that most who get possessed open themselves up to it in one way or another. I don't worry about such things for me and my family because I am a believer in God and Jesus Christ. They protect us from such things. I pray that everyone receives such protection.
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2014
  16. prufrock21

    prufrock21 Well-Known Member

    It happened to me after I read The Shining. Kept seeing that ghost lady in the bathtub.
  17. staropeace

    staropeace Richard Bachman's love child

  18. CoriSCapnSkip

    CoriSCapnSkip Well-Known Member

    This information on The Exorcist has been available for some time, but I only recently discovered it thanks to a helpful post on a message board I frequent, where I asked about it after seeing the St. Louis house featured on the 100th episode of Ghost Adventures which ran last Halloween. Of course William Peter Blatty is at no fault as his work is fiction and not passed off as fact. This concerns numerous stories told about the real case. Many sources state that despite extreme efforts by fans of the book and movie, the real boy involved in the original 1949 events has never been identified. What!? They know the address, but they don’t know who lived there? What is that?

    This article seems like great detective work. www.strangemag.com/exorcistpage1.html But it sure doesn't explain this: www.examiner.com/article/the-true-story-behind-the-exorcist Here is the segment of Unexplained Files featuring reenactments and the actual interview with the self-proclaimed witness. His name genuinely seems to have two spellings! http://www.sciencechannel.com/tv-shows/the-unexplained-files/the-unexplained-files-videos/the-real-story-behind-the-exorcist.htm

    Many items appear online "outing" the real boy, including name, address, and high school yearbook photo. Googling his name also results in some recent photos of him. This is just one such page. www.infobarrel.com/The_Exorcist_Legacy_of_Ronald_Edwin_Hunkeler

    Much more information here. MIKE'S BIG BLOG O' RAINY DAY FUN! (Fascinating, yes, I sat up half the night reading.)

    Photo on Mike Madonna’s Facebook page. Mike Madonna - Mike Madonna's Photos | Facebook This image, supplied by a classmate of the actual boy, is the only picture that has surfaced taken closest to the time of the exorcism.

    Strange, this lengthy obituary of Brother Greg Hollewinske states that he did indeed work at the right hospital, presumably at the right time, but doesn't say a thing about him being a retired Catholic monk! www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=130731720

    Facebook page of Troy Taylor, author of The Devil Came to St. Louis. Troy Taylor | Facebook He is the one who found Brother Hollewinske for his Unexplained Files appearance. He states on a post dated July 31 that he took him at his word. He remains open-minded about what happened in 1949, which he says was worth the twenty years of research he put into it. So far I've found no further statements regarding Brother Hollewinske, and would be very interested to learn of anyone who knew him and can comment one way or another on his level of involvement or lack thereof.

    Further information: writeup on Reverend Luther Miles Schulze, a Lutheran pastor who was the first clergyman to observe the boy. A lengthy article described his observations, and, according to a 1949 newspaper article referenced here, www.strangemag.com/exorcistpage1.html he gave a talk on the subject. The newspaper article describes him as laughing as he related the events and claiming he told the boy to cut the comedy. Unfortunately neither the text of the pastor's talk nor his article seem to be available online, so no checking whether what he actually said and wrote contradict the newspaper article.

    Internet Movie Database page for Walter H. Halloran, the one priest documented to have participated who was willing to speak publicly. www.imdb.com/name/nm0356726/?ref_=rvi_nm This lists programs in which he appeared describing his experiences, which can then be checked for availability on You Tube.

    Amazon.com entry for the book The Real Story Behind the Exorcist, by Mark Opsasnick, who did the groundbreaking research on the case. The Real Story Behind the Exorcist: A Study of the Haunted Boy and Other True-Life Horror Legends from Around the Nation's Capital: Mark Opsasnick: 9781425741341: Amazon.com: Books Of course no one should review a book they haven’t read, but can we please give this guy some love in the comments? I commented on remarks posted about him and Reverend Luther Miles Schulze which seem unfounded to a degree bordering on slander. Several other much less well-researched books have garnered way better reviews. For those relying solely on Amazon reviews, this is extremely misleading!

    I hope I am not doing a public disservice in providing this information, as personally I believe there is something to these things. I'd hate to contribute to someone saying, "Well, if the most famous case ever is this questionable, it must be fine to play with Ouija boards and so on," which IMHO it's emphatically not!

    In case all this proves too much, this cracks me up every time I think of it. When Tim Conway ad libs that she is now all good including “a little of her left knee,” you can see Bernadette Peters crack up.

    Thinking about all this leaves me with a lot of questions, starting with Reverend Luther Miles Schulze. The 1949 newspaper article referenced here www.strangemag.com/exorcistpage1.html has him giving a talk making light of the events, yet an uncredited article for The Parapsychology Bulletin (August 1949, Number 14), a periodical of the New York-based Parapsychology Foundation, titled “Report Of A Poltergeist” appeared publishing his name. Well, why was this article published and what did it say? So, you’re an adult with a responsible community position, a child/teenager comes to your house and pulls a mischievous prank, and you go to a Parapsychology Foundation? To say what? Beware of pranksters? Without seeing this article, it would seem to me that there is more to this.

    Then there are the priests. Why would people who present themselves as professionals allow themselves to be yanked around for months by a highly-strung young man staging an elaborate act? At what point would they not simply walk off, saying, “He needs help other than ours”? Who leaked this story to the press, and why did Father Halloran continue to discuss it for decades afterwards? If absolutely nothing paranormal happened, why would professional people risk their reputations by taking a non-story to the press?

    As for the subject and any of his family members not wanting to discuss it, that proves absolutely nothing. If he was possessed, would they advertise it? If not, yes, they’d be embarrassed, and either way it was not their finest hour and they’d want to put it behind them. Their behavior in no way proves anything paranormal either did, or did not, happen.

    Lastly, there is the mysterious matter of Brother Greg Hollewinske, a dying cleric who should be making his peace with God, coming forward and absolutely swearing he witnessed profoundly paranormal phenomena. His possible involvement bears further looking into.

    I have come to no bottom line conclusion here, except that there is an awful lot of smoke for no fire. Certainly the exaggerated events did not occur as depicted in the book and movie, but it seems to me something out of the ordinary did in fact happen.

    All the nonsense peddled about the Exorcist events makes me think of one of my favorite subjects, Chicago’s famous hitchhiking ghost, Resurrection Mary. Notice I say “subject,” not “story,” “myth,” or “legend.” There is just too much good evidence for the events, about which I have posted here: Resurrection Mary, Chicago's Famous Hitchhiking Ghost, page 1
    Resurrection Mary - Famous Haunts - Ghoststudy Community
    Resurrection Mary Deserves Her Own Thread! - Sitcoms Online Message Boards - Forums

    Another obituary showing that the purported witness was a distinguished and decorated hero! Hardly the sort to spout sensationalism. He came from a large family and has a brother and sister still living!
    Gregory Hollewinske Obituary - Sunset Funeral Home | San Antonio TX

    Now for the million dollar challenge: I just so happen to have the names and addresses of Brother Hollewinske's brother and sister. Thing is, in all this time I simply haven't come up with a tactful way to ask, "In your opinion was your brother a reliable witness?" In the opinion of Mike Madonna at least, he was probably whacked out on painkillers under whose influence one might well say anything! You are such a warm and wonderful group of people, perhaps one among you has the courage to PM me for these addresses and approach these relatives yourself? Bonus points also to anyone who can supply inside info on Resurrection Mary!
  19. PatInTheHat


    Calling James Randi, is there an Amazing Randi in the house?...Channeling Eric Weiss, hey Houdini, you have a call on the ether network, pick up please:ghost:
    Maskins, CrimsonKingAH and Spideyman like this.
  20. CoriSCapnSkip

    CoriSCapnSkip Well-Known Member

    I sense skepticism here and possibly even sarcasm.

    Regarding Brother Hollewinske, simple question: did he ever mention witnessing an exorcism or paranormal phenomena before he was old, hospitalized, and possibly medicated? I'd be a lot more impressed if he did. I wish I could figure out identities of his brother and sister's kids--who might be online and not have to be contacted through snail mail--but I didn't take it that far!

Share This Page

Sleeping Beauties - Available Now