The discussion start 31,st october at 8 pm eastern time. I'm looking forward to meeting you all here then.
Discussion - Oh, Whistle And I'll Come to You, My Lad by M.R. James
- Thread starter Kurben
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Is there a link for the story, Kurben?
...thank ya ma'am!.....
Great story! I've quite a few MR James stories. They never fail to give a chill. If you can check out BBC adaptations.
Its early,i know, but its rather late here so i'll give you a few points i thought about and if i'm awake at 2 am (thats 8 pm eastern) here i'll return.
Firstly its rather typical of James. There is an academic at the center of the story, our dear Professor Parkins. And the chill comes from something rather ordinary. Here its an old whistle. James builds up the story very well i think. First he gives us the character, a rather dry, skeptical man who has difficulties believing in things that cant be measured and/or documented in some reliable way. Then he gives us the setting and then the chills start. I think he is good at slowly building the chills, first that walk home with the sense that someone is following, then the dream about a shapeless figure and then the bed that has been slept in. And then the scariest moment, IMO, in the story when he awakes in the night and sees something suddenly sit up in the other bed and shuffling towards him, Chills down your spine. Its noteworthy that James is very aware of the effect of the unknown on the human psyche and therefore his description of the thing is never detailed. He leaves it to us to fill in the blanks knowing that , just because the description is vague, we will fill it with the most horrible or scary we can imagine. He knows how human imagination works and uses it well in this story.
Its also interesting that he, professor Parkins i mean, did not have the stamina to throw away the whistle but the colonel did it. All in all, he was lucky that the colonel was such a loyal friend after just a few days together. Without him he would probably be dead or insane so Parkins is not the storys hero, he is the victim and the colonel is the hero. One of my faves of James output. I think he wrote 35 or so ghoststories in his life. This is one of the best i think.
tI will be very interesting to hear your points and what you thought of the story.
I wondered when i read the ending if theres any significance to him making the hero a man that believes that theres often something in myths, fairytales, sagas and so on. Is that just a storydevice without any bigger meaning or does it indicate that James himself believes something of the Kind in spite of being a Professor in antiqaurian stuff at cambridge? I could not help but wonder. Do you have any opinion on that?
And this is just the arhaeologist in me speaking but i would have liked a look on that whistle. Bronze was the material which implies it was probably older than the templar place it was found in. Perhaps imported from the Kingdom of Jerusalem? The Templars headed an intensive trade from Jerusalem all over their big bases in western europe. This is pure speculation but any tale about things found in the ground makes me come alive.... Its a sickness of some kind, i know.
Firstly its rather typical of James. There is an academic at the center of the story, our dear Professor Parkins. And the chill comes from something rather ordinary. Here its an old whistle. James builds up the story very well i think. First he gives us the character, a rather dry, skeptical man who has difficulties believing in things that cant be measured and/or documented in some reliable way. Then he gives us the setting and then the chills start. I think he is good at slowly building the chills, first that walk home with the sense that someone is following, then the dream about a shapeless figure and then the bed that has been slept in. And then the scariest moment, IMO, in the story when he awakes in the night and sees something suddenly sit up in the other bed and shuffling towards him, Chills down your spine. Its noteworthy that James is very aware of the effect of the unknown on the human psyche and therefore his description of the thing is never detailed. He leaves it to us to fill in the blanks knowing that , just because the description is vague, we will fill it with the most horrible or scary we can imagine. He knows how human imagination works and uses it well in this story.
Its also interesting that he, professor Parkins i mean, did not have the stamina to throw away the whistle but the colonel did it. All in all, he was lucky that the colonel was such a loyal friend after just a few days together. Without him he would probably be dead or insane so Parkins is not the storys hero, he is the victim and the colonel is the hero. One of my faves of James output. I think he wrote 35 or so ghoststories in his life. This is one of the best i think.
tI will be very interesting to hear your points and what you thought of the story.
I wondered when i read the ending if theres any significance to him making the hero a man that believes that theres often something in myths, fairytales, sagas and so on. Is that just a storydevice without any bigger meaning or does it indicate that James himself believes something of the Kind in spite of being a Professor in antiqaurian stuff at cambridge? I could not help but wonder. Do you have any opinion on that?
And this is just the arhaeologist in me speaking but i would have liked a look on that whistle. Bronze was the material which implies it was probably older than the templar place it was found in. Perhaps imported from the Kingdom of Jerusalem? The Templars headed an intensive trade from Jerusalem all over their big bases in western europe. This is pure speculation but any tale about things found in the ground makes me come alive.... Its a sickness of some kind, i know.
My first time reading anything by this author, and I will look into his other works. He is pulling me in.
First thing I thought about when the whistle was discovered was Kurben . I could just picture him in pure wonder at such a find!
I looked up some info and the author and found this:
James perfected a method of story-telling which has since become known as Jamesian. The classic Jamesian tale usually includes the following elements:
I would say this story fit that structure to a T.
There was a contrast in descriptions-- the faint light, pale sand in reference to the seashore. Whereas, the use of the color black - the black pursuer. Almost a foreshadowing with the dream,walk, fluttering drapes. The story moved well and kept me interested.
I agree that the colonel was the stronger of the two-- more common sense.
Somewhere in James' life- perhaps childhood he had to be exposed and begin to realize that myths, fairtales, and saga are often based on real life (Exaggerated sometimes, but the base is there). Thus I do think he was open to "ghosts".
love your little bits of history, Kurben. I feel I learn something new from your posts!!
Will try to come back at 8.
First thing I thought about when the whistle was discovered was Kurben . I could just picture him in pure wonder at such a find!
I looked up some info and the author and found this:
James perfected a method of story-telling which has since become known as Jamesian. The classic Jamesian tale usually includes the following elements:
- a characterful setting in an English village, seaside town or country estate; an ancient town in France, Denmark or Sweden; or a venerable abbey or university
- a nondescript and rather naive gentleman-scholar as protagonist (often of a reserved nature)
- the discovery of an old book or other antiquarian object that somehow unlocks, calls down the wrath, or at least attracts the unwelcome attention of a supernatural menace, usually from beyond the grave
I would say this story fit that structure to a T.
There was a contrast in descriptions-- the faint light, pale sand in reference to the seashore. Whereas, the use of the color black - the black pursuer. Almost a foreshadowing with the dream,walk, fluttering drapes. The story moved well and kept me interested.
I agree that the colonel was the stronger of the two-- more common sense.
Somewhere in James' life- perhaps childhood he had to be exposed and begin to realize that myths, fairtales, and saga are often based on real life (Exaggerated sometimes, but the base is there). Thus I do think he was open to "ghosts".
love your little bits of history, Kurben. I feel I learn something new from your posts!!
Will try to come back at 8.
...I'm in early, got a live ghost hunting show to watch starting at 8(my own sickness).....James, in my opinion-is a Gothic Horror writer with his tales of the "ghastly"...I admit to having to look up some of the antiquated terminology, but it didn't take away from the tale....this story felt "thick", to much groundwork for a weak payoff....at the base, it IS a scary bit of writing, but could have been trimmed by several dozen words....the "creature" was the only interesting portion to me...I'll take Lovecraft's wordiness any day....not being mean Kurb-James just doesn't do it for me.....as for the whistle, I feel it was something pagan, and had been used in certain ceremonies never referenced in the story.....
Interesting that you mention Lovecraft. I feel they are very different animals and rather difficult to compare but i'm sure neither is in everybodys taste. When it comes to Lovecraft i'm a bit divided. His best are very good while his worst are bad and really boring. I feel James holds a more even level in his stories.Perhaps because he wasn't really a writer (unless it was scholarly works). He was persuaded by friends to publicize the first collection and says himself he had a tight screening process on the things he did publicize. Of course a more professional writer like Lovecraft cant afford that luxury. For me both works in their very different way.
From his dream..... a pretty good illustration i think.
Couldn't get to this last night because of a constant knocking on my door. 
Still looking forward to it and will chime in later.
Still looking forward to it and will chime in later.
I think you can tell from the writing, here and elsewhere, that James was first and foremost a scholar, as well as someone seemingly educated in the classical tradition. It's a style that conveys atmosphere quite well but, as GNTLGNT says, can lead to a certain "thickness" (the English Lang. & Lit. graduate in me wants to point out that the term is lexical density, so I shall ). Again, though, that kind of thing was fairly common for the time, as were run on sentences, rather like this one, which to modern eyes can be somewhat difficult, not to say impossible, to read and clearly comprehend, but were nevertheless perfectly understood by those writers' contemporaries, and, indeed, were even considered desirable, not to mention literary.
As for the whistle...it's been a while since I last read it, but I remember getting the distinct impression that it had been ancient even by the time of the Templars (in fact, wasn't the inscription in classical Latin, indicating that it came from the Roman period?). Given Kurben's thoughts, it must be possible for it to have been lost, perhaps intentionally, in Roman Judaea, discovered by the Templars and shipped back to western Europe, only to then come to Britain and ultimately be lost or intentionally buried again?
But yes, on first reading my main thoughts were Where did it come from?, Who is the figure who comes? (the revenant of the last person to blow it and get chased down, perhaps? Something else, and considerably more ancient?), How did it come to do what it does? Is it why it was made? But then when, why and by whom?
I hate mysteries like that. I always want to solve them. Which is the kind of curiosity that leads the erstwhile Prof into so much trouble in the first place, no?
). Again, though, that kind of thing was fairly common for the time, as were run on sentences, rather like this one, which to modern eyes can be somewhat difficult, not to say impossible, to read and clearly comprehend, but were nevertheless perfectly understood by those writers' contemporaries, and, indeed, were even considered desirable, not to mention literary. As for the whistle...it's been a while since I last read it, but I remember getting the distinct impression that it had been ancient even by the time of the Templars (in fact, wasn't the inscription in classical Latin, indicating that it came from the Roman period?). Given Kurben's thoughts, it must be possible for it to have been lost, perhaps intentionally, in Roman Judaea, discovered by the Templars and shipped back to western Europe, only to then come to Britain and ultimately be lost or intentionally buried again?
But yes, on first reading my main thoughts were Where did it come from?, Who is the figure who comes? (the revenant of the last person to blow it and get chased down, perhaps? Something else, and considerably more ancient?), How did it come to do what it does? Is it why it was made? But then when, why and by whom?
I hate mysteries like that. I always want to solve them. Which is the kind of curiosity that leads the erstwhile Prof into so much trouble in the first place, no?
Excellent discussions--
Since the SKMB had an long weekend, how about we have the next discussion group on Wednesday Nov. 14th.
Can we have a volunteer pick a book?
Since the SKMB had an long weekend, how about we have the next discussion group on Wednesday Nov. 14th.
Can we have a volunteer pick a book?
OK, lets do Joe Hill's story 20th Century Ghost
Sounds like a winner-- Nov. 14th!!!
I thought, since no book was suggested last Wed. it might be best to give everyone some time off this week to read, thus take "the day off tomorrow" and re start discussion next Wednesday. Hope that is ok?Have we got a day off tomorrow?
