Dr Sleep and AA

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AnnaMarie

Well-Known Member
Feb 16, 2012
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I have a question for those who have BTDT.

At the end,
when Dan shares about stealing the money, he thinks everyone will be shocked and disgusted. But they just eat their cake and carry on. Is that a regular thing at AA? Where the person sharing feels that what they did is so horrible, and guilt is eating them up....and everyone else doesn't see it as that horrible? I don't mean that they simply accept without judging, which is easier said then done. I mean, what seems horrible to the person who did it, seems unforgivable to him/her, really does not seem "that bad" to other people.
 

AnnaMarie

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Feb 16, 2012
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Well, that kind of makes sense to why I didn't see it as rock bottom.
he put the coke out of the kids reach. He stole money, after his was used to buy the drugs. If he had not stolen it, IMO, what happened to the little boy would have happened anyway. I never really felt it was Dan's fault.
 

Neesy

#1 fan (Annie Wilkes cousin) 1st cousin Mom's side
May 24, 2012
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Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Well, that kind of makes sense to why I didn't see it as rock bottom.
he put the coke out of the kids reach. He stole money, after his was used to buy the drugs. If he had not stolen it, IMO, what happened to the little boy would have happened anyway. I never really felt it was Dan's fault.
Good! I did not
blame Dan,
either - glad to see someone else felt the same.
 
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Christiane17

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2010
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Quebec, Canada
I have a question for those who have BTDT.

At the end,
when Dan shares about stealing the money, he thinks everyone will be shocked and disgusted. But they just eat their cake and carry on. Is that a regular thing at AA? Where the person sharing feels that what they did is so horrible, and guilt is eating them up....and everyone else doesn't see it as that horrible? I don't mean that they simply accept without judging, which is easier said then done. I mean, what seems horrible to the person who did it, seems unforgivable to him/her, really does not seem "that bad" to other people.
That's exactly how I felt too. BTW, at AA meetings, nobody judges anybody. At different levels, everyone is guilty of doing some wrong to others, especially close ones. That's why they say they feel like making amends at a certain point in their recovery. And you don't have to be an AA member to do this. It can apply to any human being. :shake:
 

The Nameless

M-O-O-N - That spells Nameless
Jul 10, 2011
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The Darkside of the Moon (England really)
I was actually waiting for the "real" reveal - I thought that Dan subconciously
blamed himself for letting the boy stay with his mum, rather than call social services or alert someone - thus, when the Uncle beats the kid to death, Dan blames himself
but that didn't appear to be the case, Dan seemed to just be concerned about
taking the money
 

AnnaMarie

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Feb 16, 2012
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That's exactly how I felt too. BTW, at AA meetings, nobody judges anybody. At different levels, everyone is guilty of doing some wrong to others, especially close ones. That's why they say they feel like making amends at a certain point in their recovery. And you don't have to be an AA member to do this. It can apply to any human being. :shake:
I do know that's how AA works. But people are people, and I don't believe it is always possible for every single person in a meeting to not judge all the time. Some people feel their own self-worth by comparing themselves to others, and even though it goes against what AA teaches. (Same as WW. Some people will just feel better about themselves because someone else gained a pound this week.)
 

Christiane17

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Jan 19, 2010
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I do know that's how AA works. But people are people, and I don't believe it is always possible for every single person in a meeting to not judge all the time. Some people feel their own self-worth by comparing themselves to others, and even though it goes against what AA teaches. (Same as WW. Some people will just feel better about themselves because someone else gained a pound this week.)
I agree. It's hard to not judge or compare, but at the end of the day, we are all human, and making mistakes is unfortunately a human thing. I think in our heads, we have the tendency to judge, but in our hearts, we always find a way to forgive ( if forgivable ). Although I forgive easily, sometimes I have a hard time to forget. Does that make sense? I think Dan's problem, is that he had a big issue with his conscience and couldn't forgive himself for doing wrong things. I think his ''shining'' helped him a lot. Great character. Love him!!! :heart:
 

~Ally~

Well-Known Member
Nov 11, 2008
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I have a question for those who have BTDT.

At the end,
when Dan shares about stealing the money, he thinks everyone will be shocked and disgusted. But they just eat their cake and carry on. Is that a regular thing at AA? Where the person sharing feels that what they did is so horrible, and guilt is eating them up....and everyone else doesn't see it as that horrible? I don't mean that they simply accept without judging, which is easier said then done. I mean, what seems horrible to the person who did it, seems unforgivable to him/her, really does not seem "that bad" to other people.
As people in general we all react differently dependant on how the situation affects you personally. When you are the one wronged, or in the wrong, even the smallest error in judgement can seem a bigger deal than it really is.

Also, I think Dan felt more guilt about the money because taking it was an action he directly performed, which could possibly have an indirect effect on how the child was treated later...for example that could have be the difference between buying food, or the kid being left to starve. Dan had no reason to feel guilt for the child's fate, that was out of his hands, and not something he played a direct role in. We can all go down the line of thinking what if he reported the mother, etc, etc, but that's no guarantee the child would have been removed from her care.
 

AnnaMarie

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Feb 16, 2012
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I agree. It's hard to not judge or compare, but at the end of the day, we are all human, and making mistakes is unfortunately a human thing. I think in our heads, we have the tendency to judge, but in our hearts, we always find a way to forgive ( if forgivable ). Although I forgive easily, sometimes I have a hard time to forget. Does that make sense? I think Dan's problem, is that he had a big issue with his conscience and couldn't forgive himself for doing wrong things. I think his ''shining'' helped him a lot. Great character. Love him!!! :heart:
Bit off topic here, but I think "forgive and forget" is a ridiculous way to live your life. Actually, can be dangerous. If you "forgive and FORGET" it leaves you in a place to allow it (whatever it is) to happen to you again.

The real challenge is to "forgive while still remembering".
 

Christiane17

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2010
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Quebec, Canada
Bit off topic here, but I think "forgive and forget" is a ridiculous way to live your life. Actually, can be dangerous. If you "forgive and FORGET" it leaves you in a place to allow it (whatever it is) to happen to you again.

The real challenge is to "forgive while still remembering".
Right on, but the thing is not to allow people to do you wrong twice the same way they did before. That I would have a hard time to forgive. I may consider not having anything to do with the person again. And of course, I would clearly mention this to whoever the peep is. You can make mistakes and hurt people, but you cannot repeat and repeat again, and expect that they will forgive you each time. I wouldn't. I think only God can do that. Forgiveness is of course praiseworthy, but I make myself clear that I'm not just a forgiving machine. You can also forgive yourself doing mistakes by not repeating them all the time. That makes sense I think.
 

Neesy

#1 fan (Annie Wilkes cousin) 1st cousin Mom's side
May 24, 2012
59,155
224,997
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Bit off topic here, but I think "forgive and forget" is a ridiculous way to live your life. Actually, can be dangerous. If you "forgive and FORGET" it leaves you in a place to allow it (whatever it is) to happen to you again.

The real challenge is to "forgive while still remembering".
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me?

My take on the expression "Forgive and forget" means to not hold a grudge.

Sure, always be wary of something bad possibly happening in the future, but don't dwell on it.
 

AnnaMarie

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Feb 16, 2012
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That makes sense flake.

I guess I just know to many people who think it means literally forget what happened. But they never actually do. And 6 months later when you spill a cup of coffee they blow a gasket and start screaming at you about the coffee, but suddenly they're yelling about ice-cream...and you have no idea why....and eventually you realize that last summer you promised to buy them an ice-cream and you bought the wrong flavour and somehow the coffee has reminded them. And again, they forgive and "forget"....until 4 months later, and you drop a glass and they start screaming, and suddenly they're screaming about coffee....and ice-cream. And I just can't deal with it.

That just seems to be the way to many people act. They don't deal with, they don't talk out. They scream and yell and storm off, then suddenly reappear as if nothing happened...they have forgiven and forgotten. But not really. Not really at all.
 

Jim M

Member
Jan 15, 2014
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Thanks for shareN Chris!

I am a member of AA, 12 years sober.
In Dr. Sleep:
The depiction of AA (and the drunks it serves) is utterly realistic.
when I read it , I ran and told an old sponsor of mine all about it.
then I shared about it in a meeting. I was very excited that the
main dudes in the story are all AA guys!!

some members where 'wary' of a celeb' talking about his or her
recovery. It is one of our highest traditions that we keep
%100 anonymity at the level of press radio and film.

some members think that the %100 IS A LITTLE EXTREME.

We believe its OK for a celeb to talk about recovery, as long as that celeb
does not set themselves up to be the "poster child" for AA or NA or any other A.
not in any way, not ever. its NEVER a good idea.

King and many other celebs (Stephen Tyler, Greg Fergison, Drew Barrymore etc etc)
do a fine job at this, keeping well with in the confines of common sense.

It was a great day for me when I saw a true-to-life depiction of AA's
in the media. Most AA related stuff is something like...
...SNL Spoofs and such.

TommyKnockers is another King book filled with AA references.
Jim M

While a lot of what SK describes about AA is accurate there is an error on Page 107 where he refers to the 12th step as dealing with anonymity. Actually it is the 12th tradition. The 12th step is about practicing the 12 steps in all our affairs and carrying the message.

Aside from that he pretty much gets it right.

Jim M 33 years sober.
 

Moderator

Ms. Mod
Administrator
Jul 10, 2006
49,105
134,462
Maine
Jim M

While a lot of what SK describes about AA is accurate there is an error on Page 107 where he refers to the 12th step as dealing with anonymity. Actually it is the 12th tradition. The 12th step is about practicing the 12 steps in all our affairs and carrying the message.

Aside from that he pretty much gets it right.

Jim M 33 years sober.
Is it possible they refer to it differently depending on the region? Steve has a personal knowledge of AA that he has made public so don't feel I'm giving anything away to say that he may know it by a different name and that's been his experience of it. Honestly don't know that much about AA so just a guess on my part.
 

Haunted

This is my favorite place
Mar 26, 2008
17,060
29,416
The woods are lovely dark and deep
Jim M

While a lot of what SK describes about AA is accurate there is an error on Page 107 where he refers to the 12th step as dealing with anonymity. Actually it is the 12th tradition. The 12th step is about practicing the 12 steps in all our affairs and carrying the message.

Aside from that he pretty much gets it right.

Jim M 33 years sober.
 

not_nadine

Comfortably Roont
Nov 19, 2011
29,492
138,481
Behind you
No, Ms. Mod. Religion does not matter - they try to stay away from religion and refer to it as a "higher power"
but many stay with the traditional "God", but it turns a lot of people off.

Your "Higher Power" can be anything that you declare is more important than you, yourself are. It could be anything from the universe to karma and anything in between.

Many people have been in the program for a long time and still have yet to find their own "higher power".
 

Moderator

Ms. Mod
Administrator
Jul 10, 2006
49,105
134,462
Maine
No, Ms. Mod. Religion does not matter - they try to stay away from religion and refer to it as a "higher power"
but many stay with the traditional "God", but it turns a lot of people off.

Your "Higher Power" can be anything that you declare is more important than you, yourself are. It could be anything from the universe to karma and anything in between.

Many people have been in the program for a long time and still have yet to find their own "higher power".

I may have completely missed the religion part but was thinking the question was referencing what the 12th "step" is about as opposed to the 12th "tradition". I'd thought maybe they could be different depending on where your meetings were. Again, have to confess my ignorance of the inner workings of the program.
 

Christine62

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2013
493
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Oklahoma City
Who are we to judge whether someone has hit the lowest of the lows. It is for that person to decide if enough is enough. Not everyone has to be in the gutter to decide they need help. I feel Dan was haunted by that image of the baby and his eventual end. And stand up and tell someone or a whole room full of people will never erase that from his soul.
 
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