General IT discussion with a primary focus on IT and the more cosmic part of the story.

  • This message board permanently closed on June 30th, 2020 at 4PM EDT and is no longer accepting new members.

Embered Cthulhu

New Member
Nov 2, 2019
4
17
22
Greetings to all, new to the forums and wanted to discuss my favorite King novel. I've been hard pressed to find another place to talk in depth about it. I finished it again recently and had a few thoughts to get things started:

IT and the Turtle: The two are obviously counters to each other, consumption, creation, etc. I wonder exactly if the Turtle is indeed Maturin. It's a popular theory, but nothing stated as fact. The turtle does not seem to bother itself with IT or anything relating to such. Yet we have IT, who hates the Turtle with a passion. That seems to be the end of it, except for the mysterious Other; who is likely Gan. I wonder what your ideas are on IT's place within the Dark Tower perspective, a todash monster? Demon Elemental? Something else entirely? Im thinking the latter. And why exactly it seems to hate the Turtle so much. That seems obvious I suppose, but the hate seems deeply rooted to IT.

(Spoilers for Insomnia ahead.)
At the end of Insomnia, the Crimson King uses the Deadlights to "ascend" another level of the tower. As we know, IT is the Deadlights. As I recall, the King uses the lights that are around Derry. What do you make of this? I wonder if perhaps not all of IT is gone from Derry.
 

Edward John

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2019
4,004
18,785
21
Greetings to all, new to the forums and wanted to discuss my favorite King novel. I've been hard pressed to find another place to talk in depth about it. I finished it again recently and had a few thoughts to get things started:

IT and the Turtle: The two are obviously counters to each other, consumption, creation, etc. I wonder exactly if the Turtle is indeed Maturin. It's a popular theory, but nothing stated as fact. The turtle does not seem to bother itself with IT or anything relating to such. Yet we have IT, who hates the Turtle with a passion. That seems to be the end of it, except for the mysterious Other; who is likely Gan. I wonder what your ideas are on IT's place within the Dark Tower perspective, a todash monster? Demon Elemental? Something else entirely? Im thinking the latter. And why exactly it seems to hate the Turtle so much. That seems obvious I suppose, but the hate seems deeply rooted to IT.

(Spoilers for Insomnia ahead.)
At the end of Insomnia, the Crimson King uses the Deadlights to "ascend" another level of the tower. As we know, IT is the Deadlights. As I recall, the King uses the lights that are around Derry. What do you make of this? I wonder if perhaps not all of IT is gone from Derry.
I always thought of IT as the creatures the beams were keeping at bay, that somehow Pennywise had been able to get through, a la the result of some of the beams destruction. Although, Pennywise could also be some version of the Crimson King's spawn, because Mordred's true form was a spider, as is Pennywise, something like that, maybe Pennywise is the same species as The Crimson King?
 

Spideyman

Uber Member
Jul 10, 2006
46,336
195,472
76
Just north of Duma Key
Greetings to all, new to the forums and wanted to discuss my favorite King novel. I've been hard pressed to find another place to talk in depth about it. I finished it again recently and had a few thoughts to get things started:

IT and the Turtle: The two are obviously counters to each other, consumption, creation, etc. I wonder exactly if the Turtle is indeed Maturin. It's a popular theory, but nothing stated as fact. The turtle does not seem to bother itself with IT or anything relating to such. Yet we have IT, who hates the Turtle with a passion. That seems to be the end of it, except for the mysterious Other; who is likely Gan. I wonder what your ideas are on IT's place within the Dark Tower perspective, a todash monster? Demon Elemental? Something else entirely? Im thinking the latter. And why exactly it seems to hate the Turtle so much. That seems obvious I suppose, but the hate seems deeply rooted to IT.

(Spoilers for Insomnia ahead.)
At the end of Insomnia, the Crimson King uses the Deadlights to "ascend" another level of the tower. As we know, IT is the Deadlights. As I recall, the King uses the lights that are around Derry. What do you make of this? I wonder if perhaps not all of IT is gone from Derry.
Hi and welcome.
 

Embered Cthulhu

New Member
Nov 2, 2019
4
17
22
....IT for me, is a creature of the Prim and as such carries a "species" wide hatred of anything "good" i.e. the Turtle.....
I like this theory. As IT seems outside anything relating to the Dark Tower which means it doesn't care for anything that follows the white.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GNTLGNT

Embered Cthulhu

New Member
Nov 2, 2019
4
17
22
I always thought of IT as the creatures the beams were keeping at bay, that somehow Pennywise had been able to get through, a la the result of some of the beams destruction. Although, Pennywise could also be some version of the Crimson King's spawn, because Mordred's true form was a spider, as is Pennywise, something like that, maybe Pennywise is the same species as The Crimson King?
Perhaps, though IT seems not to know of the Crimson King. They do, however share qualities that the apposing force of the white has. I've also heard the Deadlights are the orange part of Merlins Rainbow.
 

Edward John

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2019
4,004
18,785
21
Perhaps, though IT seems not to know of the Crimson King. They do, however share qualities that the apposing force of the white has. I've also heard the Deadlights are the orange part of Merlins Rainbow.
The Crimson King is likely a more evolved version of the Pennywise species, and they really wouldn't know each other, the only thing they have in common is the the fact that they are both of the same species.