IT ending questions.

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Mr. Robert gray

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Dec 27, 2017
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I've recently finished IT for the third time easily my favourite king book, if my username didn't make that obvious. The ending still managed to mess with my head a great deal. And I have two questions i would love to see get discussed.
The first would be the possibility of ITs survival, now before I go further I want to say that I do beileve that the physical form of IT is indeed dead. But the ultimate form or deadlights if you prefere are still out there buzzing insanity and gibberish. Now to fully understand this cosmic stuff I beileve is impossible for one so I can't be sure in anything I say but here we go. So the deadlights and ITs form on earth are separate yet linked. Does that mean that they are completely different entities? Or share the same mind? Like a hive mind so to speak. The form on earth is physical it has limitations, yet the deadlights are endless and basically eternal, so why at the end of the spiders life does it think it's not eternal? This hints the spider is some sort of small portion of the deadlights that gained a mind of its own but I don't think so, it often speaks as the deadlights proper, so if they kill the spider isn't that like cutting of a small limb of a much bigger creature? Putting it simply do they really "kill" it? Or do they just kill the lesser of a greater evil? And if the spider(pennywise) and the deadlights the same entity then is pennywise still practically alive?
After the events of IT it's clear the creature still to some degree holds influence over Derry this being made clear in insomnia. Now the other or if you beileve gan stepped in to help the losers battle the creature, why doesn't the turtle? It states somewhere in the book that maturin Trump's It's power but is that really the case? For Gan to have to interfere I would beileve IT to be a pretty big threat, and the creature is never really mentioned in the dark tower. The last question I have is why do the losers forget again? Is it because since they destroyed a great portion of the deadlights hold over Derry that the portions of there thought involving there fight with It die with It?

Love to hear what some of you guys think.
 

Robert Gray

Well-Known Member
First, I wish you had chosen a different name. Nothing is more confusing than when several people choose variations of the same one. Odds are someone is going to confuse something you or I write at one point or another. The "Mr." isn't enough.

... So the deadlights and ITs form on earth are separate yet linked. Does that mean that they are completely different entities? Or share the same mind? Like a hive mind so to speak

I often point people to the description of the barrier blocking the Deadlights off from reality. The Deadlights is an insane entity that is outside of everything. It wants in. Every now and then it make a pinhole in the barrier and its light shines through the keyhole (so to speak) on some level of the Tower. That light came out of the sky and took physical form so it could exist in our reality. The physical It is merely the fingertip of the insane entity on Earth. The finger reaches all the way back to the Deadlights. What is more important to understand is that the form and function and logic of the creature only exists at the fingertip, something that is forced upon it by reality. The closer you get to the Deadlights, the less form and shape it has; eventually you can't even communicate with it. So the creature is "Legion" in that there are likely countless pinholes throughout various levels of the Tower where it shines through. The death of said avatar cuts off the tip of the finger an denies that level of the Tower to the Deadlights.

The form on earth is physical it has limitations, yet the deadlights are endless and basically eternal, so why at the end of the spiders life does it think it's not eternal? This hints the spider is some sort of small portion of the deadlights that gained a mind of its own but I don't think so, it often speaks as the deadlights proper, so if they kill the spider isn't that like cutting of a small limb of a much bigger creature? Putting it simply do they really "kill" it? Or do they just kill the lesser of a greater evil? And if the spider(pennywise) and the deadlights the same entity then is pennywise still practically alive?

Here is where it gets tricky, but I think I can answer your question. Pennywise is a specific manifestation, a unique Avatar of the Deadlights. It is very much the sum of its experiences within the reality upon which it trespassed. Since that degree of logic, sanity, and self awareness is only possible in our reality (remember that losing shape, form, and communication the closer to the Deadlights they got) it means that Pennywise is quite DEAD. That unique entity was a product of its experiences here in reality. Even if the Deadlights once again managed to blast a hole in the barrier and a new pinhole opened up on Derry, the manifestation would be a new one. It would be shaped by its own experiences and the reflections of understanding it pulls from our minds. It is about the journey, not the destination. The Deadlights are a destination. They are eternal. Pennywise was a journey, and it reached it clearing at the end of the path.

After the events of IT it's clear the creature still to some degree holds influence over Derry this being made clear in insomnia.

I don't believe this at all. I've read Insomnia too and we took away very different things from the story, or so it seems.

Now the other or if you beileve gan stepped in to help the losers battle the creature, why doesn't the turtle? It states somewhere in the book that maturin Trump's It's power but is that really the case? For Gan to have to interfere I would beileve IT to be a pretty big threat, and the creature is never really mentioned in the dark tower. The last question I have is why do the losers forget again? Is it because since they destroyed a great portion of the deadlights hold over Derry that the portions of there thought involving there fight with It die with It?

Gan helps those who help themselves. Lots of things from beyond are mentioned in the Dark Tower, things which are kept "outside" and thus make little difference except in passing nightmare until the day the Tower falls. One would think the Tower is instrumental to that barrier which keeps reality separate from the Deadlights. The Turtle doesn't fight because it serves the Beam, i.e. its purpose. The Turtle did fight after its own fashion, no more and no less. The very fact it poked its head out of its shell and talked to young Bill surprised even It. In the end, it isn't up to cosmic entities to fight our battles for us. We must stand first, and often alone. It comes back to that basic philosophical question, i.e. do you believe that the chamber in the top of the Tower is empty or not?
 

GNTLGNT

The idiot is IN
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preciousroy

Well-Known Member
Apr 4, 2018
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661
I've often wondered if
Ben managed to squash all the eggs in the sewer and the hatchlings that attempted to scurry away? It said he ran out of matches before he ran out of eggs and only that he was pretty sure he had gotten all of them.
 

Ceefor

Proud Member Of The SKMB, 21.05.13 - 30.06.20
May 21, 2013
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I've read the book several times, and each time I've come to the conclusion that they never killed IT.
 
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preciousroy

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Apr 4, 2018
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That could be. If IT was actually the deadlights then the Losers only really killed a physical form. I recall somewhere in the book that IT didn't need to physically eat the children it murdered, only that IT did that because it was what the children believed monsters did. So perhaps the Loser's belief that they could kill IT while it held physical form could have been enough to make it so. But I, too, believe IT may still survive.
 
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mal

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Jun 23, 2007
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Hello Mr. Robert gray and Welcome! You can call yourself whatever you like here. I can easily make the distinction between you and that other Robert Gray. I believe IT is still alive, but that is truly up to it's master, Mr. King.
 
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rozziemcnugget

Active Member
Aug 30, 2018
44
83
I've recently finished IT for the third time easily my favourite king book, if my username didn't make that obvious. The ending still managed to mess with my head a great deal. And I have two questions i would love to see get discussed.
The first would be the possibility of ITs survival, now before I go further I want to say that I do beileve that the physical form of IT is indeed dead. But the ultimate form or deadlights if you prefere are still out there buzzing insanity and gibberish. Now to fully understand this cosmic stuff I beileve is impossible for one so I can't be sure in anything I say but here we go. So the deadlights and ITs form on earth are separate yet linked. Does that mean that they are completely different entities? Or share the same mind? Like a hive mind so to speak. The form on earth is physical it has limitations, yet the deadlights are endless and basically eternal, so why at the end of the spiders life does it think it's not eternal? This hints the spider is some sort of small portion of the deadlights that gained a mind of its own but I don't think so, it often speaks as the deadlights proper, so if they kill the spider isn't that like cutting of a small limb of a much bigger creature? Putting it simply do they really "kill" it? Or do they just kill the lesser of a greater evil? And if the spider(pennywise) and the deadlights the same entity then is pennywise still practically alive?
After the events of IT it's clear the creature still to some degree holds influence over Derry this being made clear in insomnia. Now the other or if you beileve gan stepped in to help the losers battle the creature, why doesn't the turtle? It states somewhere in the book that maturin Trump's It's power but is that really the case? For Gan to have to interfere I would beileve IT to be a pretty big threat, and the creature is never really mentioned in the dark tower. The last question I have is why do the losers forget again? Is it because since they destroyed a great portion of the deadlights hold over Derry that the portions of there thought involving there fight with It die with It?

Love to hear what some of you guys think.
Hey watching a vid one time about It and I am 95% sure it said something about him being alive in another book and some other crap I cannot remember but I am almost 100% sure he is still alive and he will come back