1. New to the board or trying to figure out how something works here? Check out the User Guide.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Hot Topics is open from 8:30 AM - 4 PM ET Mon - Fri.

    Dismiss Notice
  3. The message board is closed between the hours of 4pm ET Friday and 8:30am ET Monday.

    As always, the Board will be open to read and those who have those privileges can still send private messages and post to Profiles.

Loophole for IT *Spoilers*

Discussion in 'Dreamcatcher' started by TheRedQueen, Jun 17, 2016.

  1. TheRedQueen

    TheRedQueen And Crazy Housewife

    There will be spoilers for both IT and Dreamcatcher in this post, so if you have not read either of these books, well, you've been "spoiler alerted".

    Anyway. I've read both IT and Dreamcatcher recently, and I noticed something.

    In IT, we are told that the Losers, including Mike, begin to forget their experiences and each other. It's never said right out that they forgot everything, but it's heavily implied. And then, in Dreamcatcher, when Mr. Gray arrives at the top of the hill where the Standpipe used to be, he finds a statue dedicated to all the lost souls in '85, and to the children...all the children. And this statue was donated by the Losers. It said so right on the pedestal, and all their names were there.

    So if the Losers forgot everything, or even as much as was implied, how did they think to put up a statue?

    Then there is the question of Mr. Gray himself. Who else do we know that called ITself Mr. Gray? (Or was it Grey?) And then the ominous note of: "Pennywise Lives". Were the byrum drawn to Derry because of the residue IT left behind?

    And gosh, between Bob Grey, Mr. Gray, and the Greys from Lud, I think Sai King should have written "50 Shades". It would have been a hell of a lot more interesting! ;;D
    Neesy, Nomik, Bardo and 3 others like this.
  2. champ1966

    champ1966 Well-Known Member

    Mike remembers, it's when they leave Derry that they start to forget.
    Zone D Dad, Neesy, Nomik and 3 others like this.

    GNTLGNT The idiot is IN

    ....as much as it gripes me to have to agree with my hirsute buddy here, he IS correct.....
    Neesy, Bardo, champ1966 and 1 other person like this.
  4. Doc Creed

    Doc Creed Well-Known Member

    Yeah, Mike was the lighthouse keeper, the memory keeper who stayed behind in Derry. He even was an amateur historian, interviewing the older denizens and writing about the "real" Derry. He was definitely the one who helped the adult Losers remember certain events. However, this changes at the end. Mike is still writing in his notebook after being hospitilized, so as not to forget. But here is a scene at the end which solidifies it:

    (Mike is in hospital and has just called Richie who is back in California.)

    (Richie) "...And the reason I let you talk to the tape as long as I did-"

    (Mike) "-was because at first you didn't have the slightest idea who I was."

    "Jesus, that's right! How did you know that?"

    "Because we're forgetting again. All of us this time."

    (Page 1074 of paperback.)

    As far as the Losers statue, I guess one (if not all of the remaining) had the presence of mind to memorialize what happened. They were losing memories but I personally don't feel they were amnesiacs. I think their past was fuzzy, hazy...not erased. After all, Mike has a written account of these events as a reminder, if nothing else. Just my opinion.
    Neesy, Nomik, TheRedQueen and 2 others like this.
  5. champ1966

    champ1966 Well-Known Member

    The scene in Dreamcatcher (book not film) , for some reason reminds me of when Noodles in Once Upon a Time in America, goes back to New York, to the mausoleum for his friends. Not that you'd now about that Doc, ya OUaTiA virgin. Wish I knew how to do the pig shaking its head smiley ;)
    Neesy, Doc Creed and GNTLGNT like this.
  6. Doc Creed

    Doc Creed Well-Known Member

    Yep, never heard of it. Just googled it. I loved Goodfellas, The Godfather, and The Sopranos so I'm sure I would like it.
    Neesy, Nomik, Dana Jean and 2 others like this.
  7. Bardo

    Bardo Well-Known Member

    "there are other worlds than these" theory,
    Alternate universe or reality string if you will, Where Mike continues to keep his memories.
    OP makes a good point!
    Distinctly remember Mikey beginning to forget and the actually writting starts disapperaing from the pages of his notebook
  8. Walter Oobleck

    Walter Oobleck keeps coming back...or going, and going, and going

    Good question. Maybe they pooled their resources, their sacred honor, and they decided to do this (off camera) when they met in the restaurant? Or wait now...timing'd be off. Ummm. I dunno. That's my contribution anyway...maybe they'd decided to do this at some point after the fact. Maybe when they realized the process was in effect, they, in effect, made a memorial to not forget. I dunno. Is this going to be on the test?
    Neesy, Nomik, TheRedQueen and 2 others like this.
  9. TheRedQueen

    TheRedQueen And Crazy Housewife

    Bardo, that is exactly my point, thank you! Doesn't it seem as though even Mike is destined to forget? Again, not explicitly stated, but heavily implied all the same.

    And no, no test Walter. I'm just a nerd that actually thinks about stuff like this. :blush:
    Neesy, Nomik, Bardo and 2 others like this.
  10. Nomik

    Nomik Carry on

    Kurben, Neesy and GNTLGNT like this.
  11. dedMasque

    dedMasque Member

    I'm pretty sure that Richie Tozier and Beverly Marsh appear in 11/22/63 as well. A scene where they're adults out dancing or something. So they would have remembered each other for sometime after leaving Derry so their memories may have not been lost all at once, probably more over time and starting with their memories of Pennywise first.
    Neesy, GNTLGNT and Spideyman like this.
  12. Tery

    Tery Dreaming in Middletown Moderator

    They do.

    GNTLGNT The idiot is IN

    ...which asked/answered might need to be spoilered....
    Spideyman likes this.
  14. dedMasque

    dedMasque Member

    Really its kind of left up to the reader to interpret because the books don't intertwine fully. As in they're not a trilogy of sorts even though they sometimes do share characters like the boy's that we're accused of killing Andre Melon in It later turning up in Storm of the Century and I believe in Shawshank Redemption. However, other then only slightly mentioning them they are still separate stories. It's more of a means to show that the stories exist in the same universe but are still their own story none the less.
    GNTLGNT likes this.

Share This Page

The Outsider - Coming May 22nd