New trend in SK works

  • This message board permanently closed on June 30th at 4PM EDT and is no longer accepting new members.

raggedyman79

Well-Known Member
Sep 6, 2013
126
602
40
Baton Rouge, Louisiana, United States
I think they're simply meant to represent different levels of the Tower. For example, Carrie was referred to as a fictional work in The Dead Zone, which means that Carrie White and (what's left of) Chamberlain, Maine, are not on the same level of the Dark Tower as Johnny Smith, Alan Pangborn, Gordie LaChance, Thad Beaumont, Leland Gaunt, Cujo, and the other characters who populate Castle Rock. Hopefully, SK has someone keeping track of such things.
 

GNTLGNT

The idiot is IN
Jun 15, 2007
87,651
358,754
58
Cambridge, Ohio
I think they're simply meant to represent different levels of the Tower. For example, Carrie was referred to as a fictional work in The Dead Zone, which means that Carrie White and (what's left of) Chamberlain, Maine, are not on the same level of the Dark Tower as Johnny Smith, Alan Pangborn, Gordie LaChance, Thad Beaumont, Leland Gaunt, Cujo, and the other characters who populate Castle Rock. Hopefully, SK has someone keeping track of such things.
....he certainly does...and I like his whole *nudge*, *nudge*, *wink*, *wink* approach to his "eggs of Easter"....
 

Neesy

#1 fan (Annie Wilkes cousin) 1st cousin Mom's side
May 24, 2012
61,289
239,271
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
You are in troubles round here if lil Neesy can hackle you. Although, that pug looks like it could bite, if it ever settles down. :cold:
This may be why you had a dream with me jumping off an old (ancient) building into some water!

You scare me sometimes, not_nadine - you said you are a bit psychic, so I will try to avoid any large bodies of water for a while!~ :waaaht:
 

prufrock21

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2011
2,956
12,657
The Caribbean
All the great writers do it. I believe Cervantes did it in Don Quixote, Faulkner does it in his major works, and others. It's a way of integrating the whole of his opus as one world, one universe, one creative vision. It no longer bothers me when he does this. As it no longer bothers me whenever he uses, say, the f-word. I understand that it's continued use might be considered "cutesy" at times.
So be it. It's the chance he takes.
 

Neesy

#1 fan (Annie Wilkes cousin) 1st cousin Mom's side
May 24, 2012
61,289
239,271
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
I think they're simply meant to represent different levels of the Tower. For example, Carrie was referred to as a fictional work in The Dead Zone, which means that Carrie White and (what's left of) Chamberlain, Maine, are not on the same level of the Dark Tower as Johnny Smith, Alan Pangborn, Gordie LaChance, Thad Beaumont, Leland Gaunt, Cujo, and the other characters who populate Castle Rock. Hopefully, SK has someone keeping track of such things.
 

aintshesweet

Well-Known Member
Mar 24, 2011
201
191
39
New Orleans, LA
He does it for us. Constant Readers. So we can say Ahh! I see what you did there. I love it.
Nadine, I could not have said it better myself.

I love SK, y'all, and I didn't mean any harm by the original post. So thanks for making me feel like a simp, Neesy.
Raggedyman, don't ever apologize for giving your opinion. This is why I really like this forum because everyone seems to have an open mind and willing to hear everyone out.
 

Pucker

We all have it coming, kid
May 9, 2010
2,906
6,241
58
Leave us not forget, this is a guy who

put Stehen King smack dab in the middle of Stephen King's magnum opus.

They're his worlds. Far be it from me (or anyone) to chide him for how he populates them.

Just as an observer, it seems to me he's got a wry sense of humor about the whole thing.
 

Owenk

Well-Known Member
Nov 13, 2014
351
2,060
58
I'll tell you what I find a little weird about the practice, although please understand, to me, I don't have any problem with it, it's just something that crosses my mind when this sort of thing happens (raggedyman, I think your opinion is valid, and I am glad you expressed it).

If King references It as a work of fiction in another novel, doesn't that essentially negate any mythical value attached to It in King's fictional universe as a whole? Let me state again it is no big deal, as far as I am concerned, it is meaningless, because we're just talking fiction; as I get older, I really don't care or think too much about this kind of stuff. But I find the original post an interesting one, so this is why I am bringing the subject up.
I accept what you are saying and can see a logic in it, but couldn't disagree more (not disagreeing with you, this is just my perspective.)

I have literally just got out of the car, late back to work, as I did a couple of extra circuits around the block to listen to the end of Mile 81. King references contemporary stuff and cultural touchtone consitantly. I think in the half an hour I have just been in the car he got a reference in to a Who song (The Kids are Alright), Christine, Harry Potter and Doctor Who.

I think if you are suspending disbelief then that's what you are doing. A muddy car eating people is a ridiculous story line, but any more ridiculous that a young boy living in suburban England discovering he's a wizard and Voldemort's nemesis. However, fortunately fo me and Mr King the ridiculousness to the horror conceit at the heart of the tale isn't what it is about. It is about me getting caught up in the stories of the incredibly real ordinary people who are just like me, caught up in a quite astonishingly biazarre situation.

For me then, at least, the inclusions of "real life" tangible referecne, including those to his own work make the whole think function even better - a kind of double bluff alomst? Anyway that's how it seems to work for me.
 

Owenk

Well-Known Member
Nov 13, 2014
351
2,060
58
It never seemed self congratulatory to me. I suppose it could be like a placement ad (like drinking a can of Pepsi-cola and making sure the camera catches the full name and smile when a character drinks). However, I assume anyone drinking in this book has probably enjoyed all the others already.
Yup I've noticed again and again how King drops in "real life" nuggets which keep it grounded. I think it's a really really effective technique (well it works on me anyway.)

In fact he just did it again. I was just listening to Ur and it is mentioned that Wesley's go to comfort reads are the Mataurin and Aubrey novels by O'Brian. I immediately feel grounded in the book which must be in my world because the guy's reading the same books as me and get a warm rosie inclusive feeling because the main character share a love for the same books that I do, this has me purring like a kitten.

As I say I think it's really clever writing (well that or I'm incredibly easily manipulated.)
 

Pucker

We all have it coming, kid
May 9, 2010
2,906
6,241
58
I immediately feel grounded in the book which must be in my world because the guy's reading the same books as me and get a warm rosie inclusive feeling because the main character share a love for the same books that I do, this has me purring like a kitten.
A lot of what we meet in the King panorama is, by its very nature, outlandish ... alien. But we accept these improbable intrusions into "our" world because the author makes us so comfortable there. It's not just dropping in references that we recognize, but in showing us little things to which we can relate. This is not really the same thing, but it speaks to the same phenomenon:

In Mile 81, Pete is not allowed to go along with the "big kids" on their bicycle adventures, and so he stumbles into an adventure of his own. This speaks to me very clearly in two very specific ways. I had older brothers (two and three years, respectively) growing up who delighted in nothing so much as including me sometimes and excluding me other times for no particular reason other than because they could. It is the particular province of older brothers (and sisters, too, now I think of it), to amuse themselves at their younger siblings' expense, but also to protect them from "outsiders" who might do the same.

As I say, when I read the beginning of Mile 81, this immediately shows me that I know Pete.

Also, the very idea of those bicycle adventures is something that a lot of guys (and maybe girls, too) will recognize. When I was a teenager, we used to ride our bikes right off the cliffs and into these abandoned granite quarries around where I lived then. Splashing down into the murky depths with one hand still holding onto our bikes and the other desperately clawing for the surface. These are the things that entwine us in the stories. These are the things that make us care about the fictional people. Because they may be made up from whole cloth, but they're us, too.

Aren't they?

Isn't that why we like them so much?


You know ... it occurs to me now that my mother would have expired from an enormous cardiac event long ago if she ever knew even half the crazy stuff her kids were getting up to when we followed her edict to "go play outside."

:glare:
 

Steffen

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2015
2,233
12,800
As I was reading Mr. Mercedes, I noticed SK made several references to his own works as works of fiction, including Christine and It (more accurately, the film versions of the novels)... Thoughts from the peanut gallery?
My take on this involves a spoiler for those who haven't completed the Dark Tower books, so go no further if you have not (also, shame on you).

At the end of the DT series, the Wheel of Ka has completed a full cycle and started turning once again, albeit with some changes here and there. People, places, things and situations are mostly the same, but not exactly like before (again, those of you who read the very last chapter of the 7th book of the Dark Tower know what I'm talking about). In this new reality, some of King's stories DO exist as works of fiction.

As a long time fan, I always enjoy when those references crop up.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: do1you9love?

Christine62

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2013
493
3,127
58
Oklahoma City
I think it's perfectly fine. It's just a blink--like a literary photo bomb--or a selfie. And why not...he's the King of these universes he creates...he can do whatever the hell he wants.