On Harold Lauder

  • New to the board or trying to figure out how something works here? Check out the User Guide.
  • Hot Topics is on indefinite hiatus.

  • The message board is closed between the hours of 4pm ET Friday and 8:30am ET Monday.

    As always, the Board will be open to read and those who have those privileges can still send private messages and post to Profiles.

Lee9900

Deleted User
Jun 29, 2016
267
780
50
#1
Hello, i didn't see an introduction area, so I would like to introduce myself with this post, if that is not breaking the rules. I apologize if i missed it.

I've been a long time fan of Stephen King. my first book was Salem's Lot, but my all time favorite was the book It.I read that book ten times straight when I first got my hands on it. It took me six hours straight of reading it,s topping only for bathroom breaks and something to drink, and even into the wee hours of the night reading it.

But with this post I'd like to speak a little bit on the subject of Harold Lauder.

I consider him the saddest character in all of the book and of all of the characters. Here's why.

Nobody, but nobody wanted him. He was just a thing to be used, then thrown away like he was just trash. Frannie may have considered him a friend, but in the end she threw him aside for Stu.

Not even Flagg wanted him, and Flagg accepted all kinds of bastards. He even accepted the Trashcan man and didn't really throw him aside, but was willing to give him a quick and painless death because he felt a kinship with Trash.

Flagg used him, and then just threw him away when he was done.

He was damned.

Some people are late bloomers, but some people never get to bloom at all, because no matter what they do, no matter how they look sound or seem, they will always be just a throw away person in the eyes of many people.

And that's how I see Harold, as he was presented in both the book and the mini series.

And maybe Lauder was the person he had in mind with the phrase; He thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.


Thank you.
 

staropeace

Richard Bachman's love child
Nov 28, 2006
15,095
47,956
Alberta,Canada
#7
Hello, i didn't see an introduction area, so I would like to introduce myself with this post, if that is not breaking the rules. I apologize if i missed it.

I've been a long time fan of Stephen King. my first book was Salem's Lot, but my all time favorite was the book It.I read that book ten times straight when I first got my hands on it. It took me six hours straight of reading it,s topping only for bathroom breaks and something to drink, and even into the wee hours of the night reading it.

But with this post I'd like to speak a little bit on the subject of Harold Lauder.

I consider him the saddest character in all of the book and of all of the characters. Here's why.

Nobody, but nobody wanted him. He was just a thing to be used, then thrown away like he was just trash. Frannie may have considered him a friend, but in the end she threw him aside for Stu.

Not even Flagg wanted him, and Flagg accepted all kinds of bastards. He even accepted the Trashcan man and didn't really throw him aside, but was willing to give him a quick and painless death because he felt a kinship with Trash.

Flagg used him, and then just threw him away when he was done.

He was damned.

Some people are late bloomers, but some people never get to bloom at all, because no matter what they do, no matter how they look sound or seem, they will always be just a throw away person in the eyes of many people.

And that's how I see Harold, as he was presented in both the book and the mini series.

And maybe Lauder was the person he had in mind with the phrase; He thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.


Thank you.
Welcome. Hope you get a chance to read Fireman by Joe Hill. It reminds me of some of the characters you mentioned in Steve's books. Just a suggestion.
 

Lee9900

Deleted User
Jun 29, 2016
267
780
50
#10
A lot of the times people come to the wrong conclusions or are actually being dishonest and misleading when they make claims of someone else being arrogant and all that stuff. mostly it's because they don't like it when someone else is smarter than them and being smarter than them can often be mistaken for arrogance, or people are just jealous and envious of the person who is smarter than them. So they lie in order to tear down the individual so that they can feel important.

So, at least for me, I never listen to those kinds of claims and prefer a more even handed approach and try to get to know the indivudal first. In short i believe in things like benefit of the doubt and innocent until proven guilty, and gossip is just wrong a vast majority of the time, often through honest mistakes or just outright malevolent lies.

I also don't like to give in to knee jerk reactions. it's far too easy to get distracted by them and in many cases they can destroy lives.

But I'm not perfect and i do make my own mistakes sometimes.
 

skimom2

Just moseyin' through...
Oct 9, 2013
15,668
91,905
USA
#11
A lot of the times people come to the wrong conclusions or are actually being dishonest and misleading when they make claims of someone else being arrogant and all that stuff. mostly it's because they don't like it when someone else is smarter than them and being smarter than them can often be mistaken for arrogance, or people are just jealous and envious of the person who is smarter than them. So they lie in order to tear down the individual so that they can feel important.

So, at least for me, I never listen to those kinds of claims and prefer a more even handed approach and try to get to know the indivudal first. In short i believe in things like benefit of the doubt and innocent until proven guilty, and gossip is just wrong a vast majority of the time, often through honest mistakes or just outright malevolent lies.

I also don't like to give in to knee jerk reactions. it's far too easy to get distracted by them and in many cases they can destroy lives.

But I'm not perfect and i do make my own mistakes sometimes.
Different point of view, but that happens a lot here. Harold was no one to be jealous of, at any rate. He had all the tools to be a good and useful man and an asset to his community, and proved it when he was pretending to be Hawk, but chose damnation. It was not thrust upon him, and he was not cheated: it was a choice, for which he paid a high price (one that fit within the overriding theme in the second half of the book, free will and consequence).

BTW, intimation that someone is stupid because they don't agree with your posit is bad form. Just a thought.
 

Lee9900

Deleted User
Jun 29, 2016
267
780
50
#13
Different point of view, but that happens a lot here. Harold was no one to be jealous of, at any rate. He had all the tools to be a good and useful man and an asset to his community, and proved it when he was pretending to be Hawk, but chose damnation. It was not thrust upon him, and he was not cheated: it was a choice, for which he paid a high price (one that fit within the overriding theme in the second half of the book, free will and consequence).

BTW, intimation that someone is stupid because they don't agree with your posit is bad form. Just a thought.
I am not tearing anyone down, nor was i calling anyone stupid, and i completely agree that doing so over a difference of opinion is not just bad form, it's very childish and immature. It is also a very strong sign of insecurity to get upset and insulting over a difference of opinion.

But it is a very common behavior in America these days, regardless of opinions and belief.

And as for Harold, I really don't see how he had any choice. And I am not jealous of him, just somewhat sympathetic to his situation. He really did not deserve the treatment he got.
 

Tery

A homeward angel on the fly
Moderator
Apr 12, 2006
13,487
34,951
Bremerton, Washington, United States
#16
I am not tearing anyone down, nor was i calling anyone stupid, and i completely agree that doing so over a difference of opinion is not just bad form, it's very childish and immature. It is also a very strong sign of insecurity to get upset and insulting over a difference of opinion.

But it is a very common behavior in America these days, regardless of opinions and belief.

And as for Harold, I really don't see how he had any choice. And I am not jealous of him, just somewhat sympathetic to his situation. He really did not deserve the treatment he got.
Oh, Internet, is there nothing you can't misrepresent because it's all just words? Even with emoticons.

Harold... no, he shouldn't have been treated so and, in a normal world, probably could have dealt better. We need to remember context, too.
 

Doc Creed

Well-Known Member
Nov 18, 2015
14,793
65,468
United States
#18
Harold had his chance. He coulda been 'Hawk', coulda straightened himself out, redeemed himself. Ultimately, he chose the wrong path, and met a horrible end. But heh, great character...gotta love the bad guys too.

He always reminds me of Ambrosio from Matthew Lewis' The Monk.
Exactly. I had conflicting feelings about both Harold and Nadine; despite the despicable choices they made, I pitied them. They both were in love (lust) with people that didn't love them. That's devastating to anyone but they both didn't handle it well as we all know. Just desserts and all that.
 
Jan 5, 2016
25
111
36
#19
I agree that there should be some pity for Harold - he was lonely and cast out, and there are hints of his life before the superflu that imply he was dealt a bad hand, but on the whole? He is a villian for me because he was unwilling (not unable) to overcome his personal adversity, something nearly all the heroes did. He had a number of chances of redemption throughout the events of the novel, had choices to make and was foolish and self obsessed each time, ending up with nothing. His immaturity, envy and petulance in the first half of the novel could be argued as a troubled young man reacting to the decimation of mankind, but then all the survivors had to go through this readjustment. I think King took great pains to show Stu and Fran trying to reach out to Harold to have him on side during the whole unfolding love triangle etc. Harold just didn't have it in him to join in and be a team player, even when he was presented with a fresh start in Boulder.
And he killed Nick Andros, among others. And Nick Andros was awesome.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

doowopgirl

very avid fan
Aug 7, 2009
6,594
22,538
60
dublin ireland
#20
I agree that there should be some pity for Harold - he was lonely and cast out, and there are hints of his life before the superflu that imply he was dealt a bad hand, but on the whole? He is a villian for me because he was unwilling (not unable) to overcome his personal adversity, something nearly all the heroes did. He had a number of chances of redemption throughout the events of the novel, had choices to make and was foolish and self obsessed each time, ending up with nothing. His immaturity, envy and petulance in the first half of the novel could be argued as a troubled young man reacting to the decimation of mankind, but then all the survivors had to go through this readjustment. I think King took great pains to show Stu and Fran trying to reach out to Harold to have him on side during the whole unfolding love triangle etc. Harold just didn't have it in him to join in and be a team player, even when he was presented with a fresh start in Boulder.
And he killed Nick Andros, among others. And Nick Andros was awesome.
I see Harold as villan as well. He refused to take any responsibilites for his actions. He insisted on holding on to old grudges. He could have have been any way he wanted to be.
 
We’ve created a Stephen King Library action for the 
			  Google Assistant and skill for Amazon Alexa. It'll give 
			  you a personalized reading recommendations based on your 
			  answers to a series of questions—so what are you waiting 
			  for? Find out which Stephen King book you should read 
			  next!