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The nature of Pennywise and his powers (spoilers within)

Discussion in 'IT' started by raperm, Aug 24, 2016.

  1. Reactor

    Reactor Well-Known Member

    I never seemed to understand the role of these high casualties when It goes to sleep or when It returns. Seeing how It never does anything without a good reason and having an actual purpose, these just seem to be pointless massacres. It never does these personal, so no meat to eat, or fear to harvest on. It is indifferent about people's souls, so simply killing someone won't give It any benefits. I fail to see the point of all, except Mr. King wanted to make It an even more terrifying and horrible creature. And sometimes It doesn't even kill a lot of people upon withdrawing/returning, seen in Adrian Mellon's case, where he was the only victim, and It indeed was feeding upon his corpse. So what's the purpose of these bloodsheds?
    GNTLGNT and Mr. Cranky like this.
  2. recitador

    recitador Speed Reader

    evil feeds on strife . . . it would't have to personally feed on those folks to get a rise out of their terror. it's suggested in the book (and at least semi backed up by dandelo, who i won't explain in too much detail because i can't remember which thread it was brought up in, but just trust me if you don't know what i'm referring to) that it's more the emotion than the physical act of eating. the book goes so far as to suggest that the only reason it physically feeds on humans is because the human imagination says it must be so - the monster of the tale always feeds on the victim, it hardly ever just kills. but it doesn't necessarily *need* that physical contact to feast.
    GNTLGNT and Mr. Cranky like this.
  3. Robert Gray

    Robert Gray Well-Known Member

    The reason you don't understand the how and why of the odd evil that precedes its arrival and departure is because you are still trying, desperately to define this creature in the natural order. You are still trying to give it a reason for every little thing it does. I submit that sometimes it just likes a good lynching. But if you still NEED something logical to grasp, consider the next ideas I present. Think of the bit of nastiness at the start as whatever event that acts as an alarm clock for the monster, waking it up. The smell of the cookies it likes is in the air and brings it out of sleep. The events are usually violent, involve fear and/or hatred. Remember the cycle isn't exact, it varies a bit here and there. The creature is due to wake up. The light through the barrier through which the Deadlights shine is much brighter at this time in the pattern, but the Avatar itself needs a kick start. The dust and film that has built up over the opening through which the Deadlights shine has to be wiped clean or burned off. Human beings get the ball rolling, and I submit that the spirit that we call Pennywise starts to wake up and take part. By the end of such an event the clown is wide awake and dancing a jig. In the case of Adrian Mellon it is already taking a victim. The monster likes certain behaviors. They are fun for it. But if you need a behavioral reason why a nasty event starts every cycle, you now have one. They are the catalyst which brings it out of hibernation.

    Since you need logical reasons to square this insane, chaotic monster in your mind, I'm going to discuss the horrible climax that tends to happen at the end of each cycle. Derry is the creature's own personal killing ground. It husbands Derry the way a shepherd might. It makes sure there is just enough financial stability and growth (more than other towns of a similar size and population have) so that it finds its preserve well-stocked for the safari. The hold it has over the town is powerful, but not so much when it sleeps. Imagine if everyone started to believe in the clown, if everyone in Derry "believed" something was out to get people. What if the wrongness of Derry became a well-established fact. The creature would wake up after a long nap and find nobody living there; Derry would be treated as a place contaminated by toxic waste. That certainly won't do. Thus, the end of each cycle almost always has a big bang, something horrific takes place that the people of the town will talk about for years to come. These big events are distractions. Combined with the force of the monster's will telling people to look the other way, they serve to keep the flies in the vicinity of the spider's web. Also, as I've said before, the monster gets a kick out of this stuff. If you were about to hibernate wouldn't you want to kick up your heels before bedtime? The monster under Derry is wrong. Everything about it is bad. It is an antithesis of pretty much everything. The fact that it sometimes doesn't make sense, makes perfect sense. :)
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
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  4. mal

    mal Well-Known Member

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  5. Brooks

    Brooks Well-Known Member

    I hear they have a new Phd program at the University of Maine entitled "The history, meaning and symbolism of Pennywise". Professors Reactor and Robert Gray will be your instructors :)

    You guys sure know your IT clown...
    cat in a bag, Reactor, mal and 2 others like this.
  6. Robert Gray

    Robert Gray Well-Known Member

    Heh. I don't know if I would say that exactly, but the notion is funny.
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  7. FlakeNoir

    FlakeNoir Original Kiwi© SKMB® Moderator

    Well, I sometimes feel like I may have read Robert's dissertation... :biggrin2:
  8. Robert Gray

    Robert Gray Well-Known Member

    If any book deserves a dissertation written about it, Stephen King's It is one. I expect one could use the book to discuss all sorts of philosophical concepts, as well as just literature itself. All in all, I just like to be thorough when I comment, and support my suppositions. I do realize, however, that I am writing more in depth than the average poster expects. :) I like the sound of my own voice too much; it is a personal flaw. Still, if we are going to talk about something, we might as well give it 100%.
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
    cat in a bag, Reactor, Brooks and 2 others like this.
  9. FlakeNoir

    FlakeNoir Original Kiwi© SKMB® Moderator

    I was completely joking... just a gentle tease. You are probably the most knowledgeable person on the subject outside of Stephen himself and I always turn to you for clarification on this story. I was just having a wee joke about a recent reeeeeeaaally long post. :biggrin2:
    cat in a bag, Robert Gray and GNTLGNT like this.

    GNTLGNT The idiot is IN

    ...well, he IS getting paid by the vowel....
  11. FlakeNoir

    FlakeNoir Original Kiwi© SKMB® Moderator

    He should have negotiated for the consonants!
    cat in a bag, GNTLGNT and Robert Gray like this.
  12. JMR

    JMR Well-Known Member

    I always wonder how the one toddler got grab thru the toilet. I always thought the hole was so small. Or Maybe It had time to bring him down in bits. Since nothing was ever found.
    mal and GNTLGNT like this.
  13. Reactor

    Reactor Well-Known Member

    I never really saw It as insane at all :) there are a couple of insane characters in the book - Butch, Henry, Patrick, and a lot more - but It doesn't show signs of insanity like them. In fact, It even states itself that its brain embraces the whole America, being so smart. After all, It can collect information and knowledge from anyone's brain, and even control weak-willed people. I'd say It is chaotic as hell, but completely sane and cognizant. This is why I'm so surprised when It makes seemingly illogical decisions and seems to sabotage Its own efforts.
    Most of It's actions indeed has a meaning and a reason, this is why it was surprising to see why It land a serious blow on Derry whenever It awakens or goes to sleep, since I couldn't even imagine otherwordly purposes for this :) and frankly, this is also part of It's nature, so understanding it better certainly serves everyone good :)

    When It awakes and something REALLY bad happens, that sets off the alarm at people, and possibly hastens bringing the curfew in force again. This is why I found this habit of It illogical - basically this makes Its task harder, since during the curfew, there's less victims to pick from. I think Bill mentions that the curfew worked wonders back then. Of course, if It is contented with less victims, then there is no big deal.

    You also brought up an interesting topic - what if It's existence and whereabouts would be revealed for the entire city? I don't think people would just evacuate, especially Americans. Usually, when a strange otherworldly creature's presence gets known by "da gubbmint", it'd flood the entire city with soldiers armed to the teeth, explore the whole sewer system, eventually find It, and mince it. And then the scientists would follow, taking samples, and the FBI telling everyone to shut up, and be thankful we got rid of that monster. I know it's cliché and stereotypical, but that'd happen exactly if It would be discovered by the authorities. And what resistance It could offer? Seriously. It may scare, kill or mind-control some people some of the time, but It could not kill ALL the people ALL the time. Some soldiers would be massacred by It, some others would be lost in the sewers, but eventually the sheer numbers of the US Army would overpower It for good. Even if It would unleash all its tricks, it's only a matter of time when It gets enough wounds to die.

    I'm glad you liked our detailed analysis on the creature, Brooks :D Now, if It decides to turn up somewhere else again, we'll have the proper knowledge to annihilate it :)

    As for Frederick Cowan's demise, It didn't take him with itself, just killed him. Had no time, as his mother was already running up the stairs, she even heard Its laughter (and said it sounded non-human). A hole being too small is not a problem for It, since between shapeshifts, It is an amorphous silverly-orange-ish goo, and much like the Blob in the 1985 movie, in this form, it has no problems of moving thru small pipes.
    GNTLGNT likes this.

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