The Sunlight Home for Boys

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krwhiting

Well-Known Member
Jan 5, 2015
258
1,069
51
#1
I absolutely commiserated with Jack at this place. Because I was in the Army and am a biblical fundamentalist (a real one, not the press version of one), many people are surprised that I identify with and understand people who insist on deciding for themselves and believing what they choose. Because that's what I've always done. I made my own decisions based on what I believed was true and right and good. It's also Biblical. No one can believe for someone else. It's a free universe and each person must decide for themselves. And no force is Biblically authorized to make that happen. Only communication. I do not force my children to believe, or even acknowledge belief of, anything. I do teach them and control their activities (all parents do that), but I can't decide or believe for them. I can only love and teach them. They must decide. God has no grandchildren, only children.

Another thing about fundamentalists is that we hate hypocrisy. That does not mean someone who fails to live up to their standard for right; because that's true of everyone and would make the word hypocrisy useless. It means someone who claims to be one thing while using that claim to mask something else entirely. An actor. Most people who do that do it for money: "Making merchandise of..." God's people is the main reason. To get money out of gullible people. Or to get power from them. It's a vile, wicked thing and the world is full of it. If you want to be a snake-oil salesman, there's no better way than to fake religion in the US. There's a lot of that. And it's infuriating. And to use it to mask outright evil is also common, and terribly angering.

Kelly
 
Jun 27, 2009
6,615
14,916
Tennessee
#2
I absolutely commiserated with Jack at this place. Because I was in the Army and am a biblical fundamentalist (a real one, not the press version of one), many people are surprised that I identify with and understand people who insist on deciding for themselves and believing what they choose. Because that's what I've always done. I made my own decisions based on what I believed was true and right and good. It's also Biblical. No one can believe for someone else. It's a free universe and each person must decide for themselves. And no force is Biblically authorized to make that happen. Only communication. I do not force my children to believe, or even acknowledge belief of, anything. I do teach them and control their activities (all parents do that), but I can't decide or believe for them. I can only love and teach them. They must decide. God has no grandchildren, only children.

Another thing about fundamentalists is that we hate hypocrisy. That does not mean someone who fails to live up to their standard for right; because that's true of everyone and would make the word hypocrisy useless. It means someone who claims to be one thing while using that claim to mask something else entirely. An actor. Most people who do that do it for money: "Making merchandise of..." God's people is the main reason. To get money out of gullible people. Or to get power from them. It's a vile, wicked thing and the world is full of it. If you want to be a snake-oil salesman, there's no better way than to fake religion in the US. There's a lot of that. And it's infuriating. And to use it to mask outright evil is also common, and terribly angering.

Kelly
Would that there were more of your fundamental tribe in the U.S. I grew up in the buckle of the Bible Belt and have a real issue with organized religion as a result of all the hellfire and brimstone I watched in action. This happened in either friends' Sunday school classes or on TV on Sunday mornings when I channel-surfed searching for something watchable. Sunlight Gardiner reminds me very much of all the insincere, smarmy preachers I saw on TV as a kid.

I respect someone's faith and beliefs, but not when there's proselytizing or disrespect and intolerance displayed towards other religions.
 

krwhiting

Well-Known Member
Jan 5, 2015
258
1,069
51
#5
Champ1966: If by push, you mean that I teach them and control their activities, that's absolutely true. I do indoctrinate. But so does everyone else. The only question is with what do we indoctrinate our children. I indoctrinate them in biblical truth, as instructed to do in the Bible. Others indoctrinate their children in other world views. What I don't do is require any response from them. Nor do I use force on them with respect to acknowledging or agreeing with any teaching. But like any parent, I teach them what I believe to be true because I believe it's in their best interests. Again, something I find interesting, is that everyone does this, without exception, if they are a parent who has any role in raising their kids, but many don't realize it. They think by NOT teaching something specific, they aren't teaching at all. But they are. They're indoctrinating in a different world view. We can't escape the responsibility to teach our children. They will learn something from their parents.

Lily Sawyer: I don't want to be misunderstood. I support hellfire and brimstone preaching. It is biblical. Many of Jesus' sermons were pure hellfire and brimstone. I also support proselytizing (we call it evangelism, and I'm assuming you're using the word that way), because that's also biblical. We are told, directly, to do exactly that. To preach and teach the truth to people. Keep in mind, that those of us who take the bible as the Truth also believe what it says will happen to those who reject it. It is partly because we care about them and that outcome that we try to warn of it. Most radio and TV preachers are not to be trusted. I've heard a lot of them and find them to be wildly unbiblical, though they often mix in a little bible here and there, the burden of their teaching is usually "send me money". It's a serpent's trick to lay truth alongside hypocrisy to make money. It isn't intolerant to believe something seriously, to say it out loud, and to disagree with someone else. If that's the definition of intolerant, then every single human being is a bundle of walking intolerance. Intolerance is using force to try and mandate some sort of belief; or to use force to shut someone up that we disagree with. I don't mandate anything on anyone. I'll tell them what the Bible says. What they do with that is their business. I'll also love them and be kind to them, no matter their decision. Because that's the right, and biblical, thing to do. I'm always leary of any large church or church endeavor. The larger they get, the more subject to misuse by evil men they become. Linking up with the government is also a major red flag. There's not biblical warrant for that and the government has the power to coerce, which no church should ever have. A safe church is usually a small, poor and weak one (assuming it is firmly grounded on the text of the bible). Like mine.

But, as always, I'm only stating my position. Anyone and everyone is free to disagree. It doesn't hurt my feelings.

Kelly
 

krwhiting

Well-Known Member
Jan 5, 2015
258
1,069
51
#8
I was just saying you were doing a good thing by introducing them to SK's works,Kelly.
Ah. Well, I hope you're right. I wouldn't do it if I thought it wrong. I find King's moral clarity in a non-biblical setting extremely useful and helpful. I also think the pure quality of his writing is so exceptional that it is extremely useful in teaching my kids good writing. Plus, who doesn't enjoy a good scare (so long as it's fictional)?

Kelly
 

krwhiting

Well-Known Member
Jan 5, 2015
258
1,069
51
#9
krwhiting, is this thread still about The Talisman? If we're not really going to be discussing the book, then we will move your thread to Religion and we can change the thread title if you like? (Feel free to carry on with your discussion, :) I'm just doubting that it should be in the Books section.)
I think I'm done with the over-arching topic. My apologies if I did this incorrectly. But I think the evil represented in the Sunlight Boys Home is a real one in the world we live in and I wanted to acknowledge that in the context of the book. I won't address it further.

Kelly
 

FlakeNoir

Original Kiwi© SKMB®
Moderator
Apr 11, 2006
41,265
160,836
New Zealand
#10
I think I'm done with the over-arching topic. My apologies if I did this incorrectly. But I think the evil represented in the Sunlight Boys Home is a real one in the world we live in and I wanted to acknowledge that in the context of the book. I won't address it further.

Kelly
I was not trying to kill the conversation (really) it's just that we had seemed to have left the book behind completely.

I agree with you about the Sunlight Boys Home.
 
Jun 27, 2009
6,615
14,916
Tennessee
#13
Lily Sawyer: I don't want to be misunderstood. I support hellfire and brimstone preaching. It is biblical. Many of Jesus' sermons were pure hellfire and brimstone. I also support proselytizing (we call it evangelism, and I'm assuming you're using the word that way), because that's also biblical. We are told, directly, to do exactly that. To preach and teach the truth to people. Keep in mind, that those of us who take the bible as the Truth also believe what it says will happen to those who reject it. It is partly because we care about them and that outcome that we try to warn of it. Most radio and TV preachers are not to be trusted. I've heard a lot of them and find them to be wildly unbiblical, though they often mix in a little bible here and there, the burden of their teaching is usually "send me money". It's a serpent's trick to lay truth alongside hypocrisy to make money. It isn't intolerant to believe something seriously, to say it out loud, and to disagree with someone else. If that's the definition of intolerant, then every single human being is a bundle of walking intolerance. Intolerance is using force to try and mandate some sort of belief; or to use force to shut someone up that we disagree with. I don't mandate anything on anyone. I'll tell them what the Bible says. What they do with that is their business. I'll also love them and be kind to them, no matter their decision. Because that's the right, and biblical, thing to do. I'm always leary of any large church or church endeavor. The larger they get, the more subject to misuse by evil men they become. Linking up with the government is also a major red flag. There's not biblical warrant for that and the government has the power to coerce, which no church should ever have. A safe church is usually a small, poor and weak one (assuming it is firmly grounded on the text of the bible). Like mine.

But, as always, I'm only stating my position. Anyone and everyone is free to disagree. It doesn't hurt my feelings.

Kelly
I used proselytizing in the sense of attempting to convert someone to another belief or religion. My understanding of evangelism is that it is the spreading of the gospel through witnessing or public preaching. There's a fine line between the two, but one is more overt than the other. Whatever the case, I have a low tolerance threshold for people who attempt to convert others.

It won't hurt my feelings if you disagree.
 

Sunlight Gardener

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2013
369
1,215
#14
Obviously this section of the book made a big impression on me, hence the name.

As far as the other topic, Hellfire and Brimstone being taught to me by my Mother and her church as a child is the very reason I still don't have any desire to go to church 30 years later. Now, this is just my opinion and a biased one at that, but here it is. There is NO reason an Elementary aged child needs to be exposed to scriptures about the apocalypse from the Book of Revelations. Want to chase your kids away from church for life? There's a good way to do it. Sorry if I offended anyone but it's a sore subject.

On the rare occasions when my Mom has taken my kids to church with her (a different one form the one I grew up in), I monitor VERY closely what they are being exposed to. I have made my feelings quite clear on the matter. I don't want my own kids to spend their childhood years fearfully looking out windows for signs of the end times like I did. I could never understand how I was supposed to be looking forward to this like my Mom and her church friends were. It sounded like the most terrible and scary thing ever.....at least to a 7 year old.
 
Last edited:

blunthead

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2006
80,756
195,323
Atlanta GA
#15
Obviously this section of the book made a big impression on me, hence the name.

As far as the other topic, Hellfire and Brimstone being taught to me by my Mother and her church as a child is the very reason I still don't have any desire to go to church 30 years later. Now, this is just my opinion and a biased one at that, but here it is. There is NO reason an Elementary aged child needs to be exposed to scriptures about the apocalypse from the Book of Revelations. Want to chase your kids away from church for life? There's a good way to do it. Sorry if I offended anyone but it's a sore subject.

On the rare occasions when my Mom has taken my kids to church with her (a different one form the one I grew up in), I monitor VERY closely what they are being exposed to. I have made my feelings quite clear on the matter. I don't want my own kids to spend their childhood years fearfully looking out windows for signs of the end times like I did. I could never understand how I was supposed to be looking forward to this like my Mom and her church friends were. It sounded like the most terrible and scary thing ever.....at least to a 7 year old.
I guess we're back off topic.
 
Likes: Neesy

blunthead

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2006
80,756
195,323
Atlanta GA
#17
I...am a biblical fundamentalist (a real one, not the press version of one), many people are surprised that I identify with and understand people who insist on deciding for themselves and believing what they choose. Because that's what I've always done. I made my own decisions based on what I believed was true and right and good. It's also Biblical. No one can believe for someone else. It's a free universe and each person must decide for themselves. And no force is Biblically authorized to make that happen. Only communication. I do not force my children to believe, or even acknowledge belief of, anything. I do teach them and control their activities (all parents do that), but I can't decide or believe for them. I can only love and teach them. They must decide. God has no grandchildren, only children.

Another thing about fundamentalists is that we hate hypocrisy. That does not mean someone who fails to live up to their standard for right; because that's true of everyone and would make the word hypocrisy useless. It means someone who claims to be one thing while using that claim to mask something else entirely. An actor. Most people who do that do it for money: "Making merchandise of..." God's people is the main reason. To get money out of gullible people. Or to get power from them. It's a vile, wicked thing and the world is full of it. If you want to be a snake-oil salesman, there's no better way than to fake religion in the US. There's a lot of that. And it's infuriating. And to use it to mask outright evil is also common, and terribly angering.

Kelly
I appreciate your post. In terms of Christianity the word "fundamentalist" has been misused and assumed in this country to mean something which is inaccurate in the case of most actual fundamentalists, at least the ones I know and the one I am. I'm not a snake-handler or a holy-roller (whatever that really is) or a friggin' Westboro Baptist or hallucinating. I admit I'm "crazy" enough to believe what I do (anyone interested in what it is can Start a Conversation with me via my Profile Page).
 
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