Twin Peaks Anyone??

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kingricefan

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Jul 11, 2006
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I'm gonna buy the boxset of The Return anyway. It doesn't seem to drop in price, so it will most likely only become more expensive soon or get out of print. They're not showing it on Netflix or tv here, so it's the only way to see it.

I wonder why Lara Flynn Boyle never returned to Twin Peaks - she was already replaced by another actress in Fire Walk With Me, and she doesn't seem to be in The Return. Unfortunately she also seems to have had poor plastic surgery done (that's the theory at least) and looks quite bad now - which is a shame because she had an incredibly natural beauty at the time of the original Twin Peaks.
It's been my understanding that the reason that LFB didn't return to the Twin Peaks fold after the original series ended, and David Lynch came up with the idea for Fire Walk With Me, was that she got a big head and thought that she was above the rest of the actors in TP. Remember, at that time she was dating none other than Jack Nicholson and had gotten a part in the Men In Black sequel (which tanked). Needless to say that her acting career went nowhere after these things came to an end. I agree that she was a pretty young woman, but the horrible plastic surgery changed all of that.
 

GNTLGNT

The idiot is IN
Jun 15, 2007
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It's been my understanding that the reason that LFB didn't return to the Twin Peaks fold after the original series ended, and David Lynch came up with the idea for Fire Walk With Me, was that she got a big head and thought that she was above the rest of the actors in TP. Remember, at that time she was dating none other than Jack Nicholson and had gotten a part in the Men In Black sequel (which tanked). Needless to say that her acting career went nowhere after these things came to an end. I agree that she was a pretty young woman, but the horrible plastic surgery changed all of that.
...yep, she looks like 10 miles of bad road after a Jeep Safari.....
 
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Dana Jean

Dirty Pirate Hooker, The Return
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I just finished a run through of The Return. I had started it way back when and got interrupted. And you can't get interrupted with Lynch. You have to stay on the steady diet to even try to understand the world he is creating.

I enjoyed this. Obviously it was much smarter than I am, so I know I didn't understand many moments of this complicated ballet. But visually, it was very stimulating and David had my synapses firing. Anyone who watched it was lit up! So much energy, so much creativity! I know there were things in there that weren't meant to mean anything, but I think the majority of what we see is purposeful in messages. I don't think Lynch wastes a lot of time on the meaningless.

Fascinating guy. I read some of this thread and it was mentioned there were books with insight on the Twin Peaks Universe. I might have to check those out.

And I agree kingricefan , my only complaint would be the very long gaps of staring. It's effective when used sparingly, but it becomes a gimmick when something is overused. Of course, someone could argue that Twin Peaks is one big gimmick.

I don't know. All I can say is, It was a ride for sure.
 
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Gerald

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Sep 8, 2011
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I really loved The Return. Watched all of it in under two weeks - never lost interest, it was all fascinating. What we got, just like with the film Fire Walk with Me, was purely Lynch's Twin Peaks, where as the original series was 50 % Lynch, 50 % Mark Frost.
I liked how especially early on in The Return he often goes back to his roots in animated short films.

The only thing that was a slight let-down for me was the ending of the last episode. As pleasant and fascinating as the ride is along the way, it all never seems to go anywhere in the end. Of course we are used to wanting answers, but with answers you also lose mystique, so with the sort of style and material Lynch deals with you really can't give any concrete answers or you're in danger of spoiling it all.
Also it's a series of course, it was never said it would be the final word on Twin Peaks and since then Lynch has said he wanted to do more. He sees it as an ungoing thing, not something that he really seems to want to end.

People tend to want to search for meaning behind it all, find clues and things like that. I'm not really sure if there is a whole lot of that, and whether what there is all makes sense in a way that was intended. Some of it may, some of it may not. I think Lynch purely works by feeling, by what feels right to him at that moment. When you see some of the behind the scenes he doesn't have a very clear plan, he makes things up as he goes along. The whole thing with Killer Bob was never intended, it was someone who was accidentally in a shot, and it grew into one of the main things of the series.
Lynch films like a surrealist painter paints, he follows his subconscious more than anything. And some things in the subconscious make sense, and some don't. I can often understand my dreams partly: why I dreamt something. But at other times you don't understand at all why you dreamt about certain things.
If you can put that in an interesting way on film (or on the page or canvas) you get something totally fascinating. And Lynch always manages that.
 

kingricefan

All-being, keeper of Space, Time & Dimension.
Jul 11, 2006
30,011
127,446
Spokane, WA
I just finished a run through of The Return. I had started it way back when and got interrupted. And you can't get interrupted with Lynch. You have to stay on the steady diet to even try to understand the world he is creating.

I enjoyed this. Obviously it was much smarter than I am, so I know I didn't understand many moments of this complicated ballet. But visually, it was very stimulating and David had my synapses firing. Anyone who watched it was lit up! So much energy, so much creativity! I know there were things in there that weren't meant to mean anything, but I think the majority of what we see his purposeful in messages. I don't think Lynch wastes a lot of time on the meaningless.

Fascinating guy. I read some of this thread and it was mentioned there were books with insight on the Twin Peaks Universe. I might have to check those out.

And I agree kingricefan , my only complaint would be the very long gaps of staring. It's effective when used sparingly, but it becomes a gimmick when something is overused. Of course, someone could argue that Twin Peaks is one big gimmick.

I don't know. All I can say is, It was a ride for sure.
There have been two books officially released that coincided with The Return series, (The Secret History Of Twin Peaks and The Final Dossier) both written by Mark Frost. While I enjoyed them they really didn't give too much insight to the TP world. There is also the official tie-in The Secret Diary Of Laura Palmer, which was released when the first series aired and it gives clues to who Killer Bob is. It's also a very sobering and depressing glimpse at what Laura went through in her short time on earth. There is also the official Autobiography Of Agent Cooper which ends right when he is shot at the cliffhanger in series one. I haven't read any other of the unofficial books out there.
 

Gerald

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Sep 8, 2011
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You often don't tend to think about them
There have been two books officially released that coincided with The Return series, (The Secret History Of Twin Peaks and The Final Dossier) both written by Mark Frost. While I enjoyed them they really didn't give too much insight to the TP world. There is also the official tie-in The Secret Diary Of Laura Palmer, which was released when the first series aired and it gives clues to who Killer Bob is. It's also a very sobering and depressing glimpse at what Laura went through in her short time on earth. There is also the official Autobiography Of Agent Cooper which ends right when he is shot at the cliffhanger in series one. I haven't read any other of the unofficial books out there.

I read both the Cooper Autobiography by Frost and the Diary of Laura Palmer by Lynch's daughter, Jennifer, at the time the series originally aired. The first was by far my favourite.
Haven't read the recent ones though.

Actually a lot of Lynch's work falls in the genre of crime. Crime is one his main interests. Blue Velvet, Wild at Heart, Lost Highway, Mulholland Drive - they all have to do with crime. And in Twin Peaks there is a lot of crime too. I think he has always been interested in the polarity of innocence and purity as opposed to a dark underworld. That's right there from Eraserhead on.
You just tend not to think of it as falling in the crime genre, because it's such an unusual, surreal take on it, completely different from what's usually done in that genre.
 

Gerald

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Sep 8, 2011
2,201
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The Netherlands
Regarding the subconscious, it's one of the most fascinating things. I don't know if others recognise this, but try to be aware what happens in your mind when you're just on the verge of falling asleep. I've noticed this several times: my thoughts go on as they do during the day, one thought followed by another, in a similar way as a conversation flows from one subject to the next.
But sometimes I go back to being awake, and I can't fetch what I was just thinking, only that I kept on thinking. It's like your subconscious is another language your conscious mind doesn't speak. Maybe because your subconscious sometimes has to deal with issues your conscious mind not always likes to think of. It's like it has its own secretive language or decoding, so you can't fully reach it.
I didn't notice this often though, it happened a couple of times. But it was very striking to become aware of it.
 

Dana Jean

Dirty Pirate Hooker, The Return
Moderator
Apr 11, 2006
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I really loved The Return. Watched all of it in under two weeks - never lost interest, it was all fascinating. What we got, just like with the film Fire Walk with Me, was purely Lynch's Twin Peaks, where as the original series was 50 % Lynch, 50 % Mark Frost.
I liked how especially early on in The Return he often goes back to his roots in animated short films.

The only thing that was a slight let-down for me was the ending of the last episode. As pleasant and fascinating as the ride is along the way, it all never seems to go anywhere in the end. Of course we are used to wanting answers, but with answers you also lose mystique, so with the sort of style and material Lynch deals with you really can't give any concrete answers or you're in danger of spoiling it all.
Also it's a series of course, it was never said it would be the final word on Twin Peaks and since then Lynch has said he wanted to do more. He sees it as an ungoing thing, not something that he really seems to want to end.

People tend to want to search for meaning behind it all, find clues and things like that. I'm not really sure if there is a whole lot of that, and whether what there is all makes sense in a way that was intended. Some of it may, some of it may not. I think Lynch purely works by feeling, by what feels right to him at that moment. When you see some of the behind the scenes he doesn't have a very clear plan, he makes things up as he goes along. The whole thing with Killer Bob was never intended, it was someone who was accidentally in a shot, and it grew into one of the main things of the series.
Lynch films like a surrealist painter paints, he follows his subconscious more than anything. And some things in the subconscious make sense, and some don't. I can often understand my dreams partly: why I dreamt something. But at other times you don't understand at all why you dreamt about certain things.
If you can put that in an interesting way on film (or on the page or canvas) you get something totally fascinating. And Lynch always manages that.
I agree that he works from feeling, and not everything has an explanation. But I do think he has purposeful messages with a lot of his surreal chaos. I don't know that he always knows it himself at first, but it's an instinct I think he feels and it just sort of comes together.

And I think he enjoys everyone trying to give scenes and characters and choices meaning. I think he likes us to each find our own thing in his work.

I may not be saying that quite right. But it's a feeling I get when I watch his work.
 

kingricefan

All-being, keeper of Space, Time & Dimension.
Jul 11, 2006
30,011
127,446
Spokane, WA
I agree that he works from feeling, and not everything has an explanation. But I do think he has purposeful messages with a lot of his surreal chaos. I don't know that he always knows it himself at first, but it's an instinct I think he feels and it just sort of comes together.

And I think he enjoys everyone trying to give scenes and characters and choices meaning. I think he likes us to each find our own thing in his work.

I may not be saying that quite right. But it's a feeling I get when I watch his work.
Almost all of his films are open to the individual's interpretation. I think The Elephant Man, The Straight Story and Dune are the exclusions. Lynch is a massive believer in trans. meditation. I have his book Catching The Big Fish in which he discusses what it has done for/to him. He finds alot of ideas when he is in that space.
 

kingricefan

All-being, keeper of Space, Time & Dimension.
Jul 11, 2006
30,011
127,446
Spokane, WA
I just finished a run through of The Return. I had started it way back when and got interrupted. And you can't get interrupted with Lynch. You have to stay on the steady diet to even try to understand the world he is creating.

I enjoyed this. Obviously it was much smarter than I am, so I know I didn't understand many moments of this complicated ballet. But visually, it was very stimulating and David had my synapses firing. Anyone who watched it was lit up! So much energy, so much creativity! I know there were things in there that weren't meant to mean anything, but I think the majority of what we see his purposeful in messages. I don't think Lynch wastes a lot of time on the meaningless.

Fascinating guy. I read some of this thread and it was mentioned there were books with insight on the Twin Peaks Universe. I might have to check those out.

And I agree kingricefan , my only complaint would be the very long gaps of staring. It's effective when used sparingly, but it becomes a gimmick when something is overused. Of course, someone could argue that Twin Peaks is one big gimmick.

I don't know. All I can say is, It was a ride for sure.
Deej- I forgot to congratulate you on finishing the series. I know it was kind of tough for you but you stuck with it, girl! What did you think of the ending?
 

Gerald

Well-Known Member
Sep 8, 2011
2,201
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The Netherlands
I think he likes us to each find our own thing in his work.

I think this is especially right, although it goes for art in general and the majority of artists feel that way. He said about one of his films (forgot which one, probably Mulholland Drive): "Every explanation of the film is the right one."

I think what makes his films work is that they are so visually and aurally pleasing. If he leaves out his usual aesthetics, like he did with Inland Empire, it is not nearly as good. I think without the look and feel he gives his films (often a sort of luxurious nightclub kind of feel) not a lot would be left, I wasn't crazy at all about Inland Empire.

Personally for me, we deal so much with the rational in our world and lives, that I find directors and films who deal more with the subconscious enormously freeing and liberating. You can just forget about explanations, whether things truly make sense (and films like that are beyond criticism of such things because of their nature). You can leave your mind at the door and just enjoy the experience.
 

Dana Jean

Dirty Pirate Hooker, The Return
Moderator
Apr 11, 2006
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Deej- I forgot to congratulate you on finishing the series. I know it was kind of tough for you but you stuck with it, girl! What did you think of the ending?
I don't know what to say about it. I really don't. I wanted answers but going into it, I knew it would not end with answers. I knew that. But I hoped.

All those surreal odd moments and changing characters and scenes and situations throughout.

"It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma". I think that pretty well sums it up.
 

Dana Jean

Dirty Pirate Hooker, The Return
Moderator
Apr 11, 2006
53,634
236,697
The High Seas
I think this is especially right, although it goes for art in general and the majority of artists feel that way. He said about one of his films (forgot which one, probably Mulholland Drive): "Every explanation of the film is the right one."

I think what makes his films work is that they are so visually and aurally pleasing. If he leaves out his usual aesthetics, like he did with Inland Empire, it is not nearly as good. I think without the look and feel he gives his films (often a sort of luxurious nightclub kind of feel) not a lot would be left, I wasn't crazy at all about Inland Empire.

Personally for me, we deal so much with the rational in our world and lives, that I find directors and films who deal more with the subconscious enormously freeing and liberating. You can just forget about explanations, whether things truly make sense (and films like that are beyond criticism of such things because of their nature). You can leave your mind at the door and just enjoy the experience.
exactly.
 

kingricefan

All-being, keeper of Space, Time & Dimension.
Jul 11, 2006
30,011
127,446
Spokane, WA
I think this is especially right, although it goes for art in general and the majority of artists feel that way. He said about one of his films (forgot which one, probably Mulholland Drive): "Every explanation of the film is the right one."

I think what makes his films work is that they are so visually and aurally pleasing. If he leaves out his usual aesthetics, like he did with Inland Empire, it is not nearly as good. I think without the look and feel he gives his films (often a sort of luxurious nightclub kind of feel) not a lot would be left, I wasn't crazy at all about Inland Empire.

Personally for me, we deal so much with the rational in our world and lives, that I find directors and films who deal more with the subconscious enormously freeing and liberating. You can just forget about explanations, whether things truly make sense (and films like that are beyond criticism of such things because of their nature). You can leave your mind at the door and just enjoy the experience.
Another difference (and to Lynch it was huge) with Inland Empire is it was the first time he used the digital camera for filming. He said he will never go back to the old way again.
 

kingricefan

All-being, keeper of Space, Time & Dimension.
Jul 11, 2006
30,011
127,446
Spokane, WA
I don't know what to say about it. I really don't. I wanted answers but going into it, I knew it would not end with answers. I knew that. But I hoped.

All those surreal odd moments and changing characters and scenes and situations throughout.

"It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma". I think that pretty well sums it up.
So Cooper and Laura are at the Palmer house- is it the past or is it the future? If it's the future then why doesn't the couple that own the house remember the previous owners? If it's the past then why is Cooper driving a newer car? I can't wrap my head around it!! o_O
 

Gerald

Well-Known Member
Sep 8, 2011
2,201
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The Netherlands
Another difference (and to Lynch it was huge) with Inland Empire is it was the first time he used the digital camera for filming. He said he will never go back to the old way again.

Maybe I should watch it again some time. I remember at the time I liked how it started, but along the way I gradually lost interest. It was fairly boring to me, without the usual dreamlike tension.

When he does something altogether different, like Elephant Man, Dune or Straight Story I like it though. I liked all those three. Inland Empire is about his only work I wasn't crazy about.
 

Dana Jean

Dirty Pirate Hooker, The Return
Moderator
Apr 11, 2006
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So Cooper and Laura are at the Palmer house- is it the past or is it the future? If it's the future then why doesn't the couple that own the house remember the previous owners? If it's the past then why is Cooper driving a newer car? I can't wrap my head around it!! o_O
They did know the owners. Or at least who they bought it from. But they didn't know who that owner bought it from.

And Cooper asks, what year is it? And I'm thinking, yeah! what year is it? Where is he? Where is everyone?

There are so many moments of uncertainty with the characters, I don't know. I need to read some reviews on it and see what others were thinking -- maybe that would help me start shaping my own thoughts.
 

kingricefan

All-being, keeper of Space, Time & Dimension.
Jul 11, 2006
30,011
127,446
Spokane, WA
Maybe I should watch it again some time. I remember at the time I liked how it started, but along the way I gradually lost interest. It was fairly boring to me, without the usual dreamlike tension.
I'm a huge Lynch fan (I even live on a street named Inland Empire, but Lynch is not why I live here although it's in Spokane WA and David did live in Spokane for a period of time) but even Inland Empire stretches my patience. He overindulged with this one. There's even over an hour of deleted footage and the movie itself clocks in close to three hours as released.
 

Gerald

Well-Known Member
Sep 8, 2011
2,201
7,168
The Netherlands
So Cooper and Laura are at the Palmer house- is it the past or is it the future? If it's the future then why doesn't the couple that own the house remember the previous owners? If it's the past then why is Cooper driving a newer car? I can't wrap my head around it!! o_O

The ending felt like a cop-out to me. I thought it was very weak.