Using Other's Creations

[Dana Jean]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but very curious.

I am reading a fictional book that includes other people's ideas. The author has a character with a Gryffindor scarf, discusses Spiderman and X men.

Can writers borrow from other works and drop these things into their story to make the story more relevant and "real?"

Do they have to ask permission? Or pay a fee?

 

[Doc Creed]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but very curious.

I am reading a fictional book that includes other people's ideas. The author has a character with a Gryffindor scarf, discusses Spiderman and X men.

Can writers borrow from other works and drop these things into their story to make the story more relevant and "real?"

Do they have to ask permission? Or pay a fee?

I'm curious about this, too. King touches on this at the end of Lisey's Story (Author's Note, I think) where he describes the act of borrowing nuggets from other books to use in one's own book as "going to the pool". Although he doesn't spell it out, I took this to mean that this is a privelege given only to famous authors (presumably with their consent) and not for any writer.

 

[Bev Vincent]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but very curious.

I am reading a fictional book that includes other people's ideas. The author has a character with a Gryffindor scarf, discusses Spiderman and X men.

Can writers borrow from other works and drop these things into their story to make the story more relevant and "real?"

Do they have to ask permission? Or pay a fee?

Those are things in the real world that writers can mention without paying a fee. A writer can't use Harry Potter or Spider-Man as characters, but his/her characters can certainly mention that they exist and talk about them.

 

[no bounce no play]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but very curious.

I am reading a fictional book that includes other people's ideas. The author has a character with a Gryffindor scarf, discusses Spiderman and X men.

Can writers borrow from other works and drop these things into their story to make the story more relevant and "real?"

Do they have to ask permission? Or pay a fee?

I was curious about this a while back when I wondered if the Stephen King parodies on The Family Guy were ok. I don't think they have to ask for permission or pay a fee as long as the borrowed content falls into the fair use category.

In its most general sense, a fair use is any copying of copyrighted material done for a limited and “transformative” purpose, such as to comment upon, criticize, or parody a copyrighted work. ... Most fair use analysis falls into two categories: (1) commentary and criticism, or (2) parody.
(source: Stanton University)

 

[Bev Vincent]

Parodies have long been accepted, and do not require any clearance. Anyone remember the Harvard Lampoon's Bored of the Rings? "Fair use" as applied to copying material is just that -- using literal quotes in another work, with attribution, of course. As far as mentioning other fictional entities, though -- that's not a copyright issue, so long as they aren't being exploited as characters. You couldn't set a story in Castle Rock without permission, but you could have a character say, "This place reminds me of Castle Rock."

 

[Doc Creed]

Those are things in the real world that writers can mention without paying a fee. A writer can't use Harry Potter or Spider-Man as characters, but his/her characters can certainly mention that they exist and talk about them.

Bev, do you know the circumstances or tacit arrangements King made with other writers concerning Lisey's Story? He cited instances where he used phrases like "suck oven" (and other phrases unique to other writers) which wouldn't be included in your explanation.

 

[Doc Creed]

Parodies have long been accepted, and do not require any clearance. Anyone remember the Harvard Lampoon's Bored of the Rings? "Fair use" as applied to copying material is just that -- using literal quotes in another work, with attribution, of course. As far as mentioning other fictional entities, though -- that's not a copyright issue, so long as they aren't being exploited as characters. You couldn't set a story in Castle Rock without permission, but you could have a character say, "This place reminds me of Castle Rock."

This may answer my question. Thank you.

 

[Dana Jean]

Parodies have long been accepted, and do not require any clearance. Anyone remember the Harvard Lampoon's Bored of the Rings? "Fair use" as applied to copying material is just that -- using literal quotes in another work, with attribution, of course. As far as mentioning other fictional entities, though -- that's not a copyright issue, so long as they aren't being exploited as characters. You couldn't set a story in Castle Rock without permission, but you could have a character say, "This place reminds me of Castle Rock."

So, could an author directly quote a passage from another book?

For instance, let's say a character said something like,

This is such a good book Fran, listen to this: "The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed."

And you can use song lyrics as long as you give attribution?

 

[AnnaMarie]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but very curious.

I am reading a fictional book that includes other people's ideas. The author has a character with a Gryffindor scarf, discusses Spiderman and X men.

Can writers borrow from other works and drop these things into their story to make the story more relevant and "real?"

Do they have to ask permission? Or pay a fee?

Doesn't King do that in Dark Tower?

Spoiler

I think Wizard and Glass includes items from Wizard of Oz and Wolves of the Calla includes items from Harry Potter.

 

[Dana Jean]

Doesn't King do that in Dark Tower?

Spoiler

I think Wizard and Glass includes items from Wizard of Oz and Wolves of the Calla includes items from Harry Potter.

I think Stephen does it a lot. Lots of authors do it, I was just wondering if they had to ask permission, or pay a fee to do it.

 

[GNTLGNT]

I think Stephen does it a lot. Lots of authors do it, I was just wondering if they had to ask permission, or pay a fee to do it.

....if you read the copyright pages, I know the lyrics he quotes from musical artists are "used by permission"....also, excerpts from other works is also noted to be by permission of the author or their estate....and the everyday flotsam and jetsam that makes his stories so real, are as have been stated....fair use....

 

[Dana Jean]

....if you read the copyright pages, I know the lyrics he quotes from musical artists are "used by permission"....also, excerpts from other works is also noted to be by permission of the author or their estate....and the everyday flotsam and jetsam that makes his stories so real, are as have been stated....fair use....

I do read them, and I have seen that credit given, so was wondering, why do they ask about lyrics to songs, but not actual characters and such owned by other authors? It seems like using another's world is just as valid to ask permission for as using lyrics.

maybe actually quoting a line from the book would be treated like lyrics?

I don't have a consistent vision of this use in my head.

 

[AnnaMarie]

....if you read the copyright pages, I know the lyrics he quotes from musical artists are "used by permission"....also, excerpts from other works is also noted to be by permission of the author or their estate....and the everyday flotsam and jetsam that makes his stories so real, are as have been stated....fair use....

Definitely remember seeing that for lyrics, poems, and direct quotes from books (maybe from movies too).

I don't remember seeing them for the two examples I posted. Doesn't mean they are not there...only that I do not remember.

 

[GNTLGNT]

I do read them, and I have seen that credit given, so was wondering, why do they ask about lyrics to songs, but not actual characters and such owned by other authors? It seems like using another's world is just as valid to ask permission for as using lyrics.

....I have no doubt hun that you read them....just a figure of speech on my part, Bev I think has the answers.....

 

[Dana Jean]

....I have no doubt hun that you read them....just a figure of speech on my part, Bev I think has the answers.....

Oh no, I wasn't saying that in an insulting way. I was just reiterating what you said. That yes, I've seen that, but it seems like author's worlds are just as valid to ask permission to use and give credit for.

Of course, the popular stuff we know -- Harry Potter, Spiderman, Lord of the Rings -- but for more obscure authors and their writings -- how would we know?

 

[GNTLGNT]

Oh no, I wasn't saying that in an insulting way. I was just reiterating what you said. That yes, I've seen that, but it seems like author's worlds are just as valid to ask permission to use and give credit for.

Of course, the popular stuff we know -- Harry Potter, Spiderman, Lord of the Rings -- but for more obscure authors and their writings -- how would we know?

....hmmmmmm, good question.....I suppose one could be totally honest and try to reach the "founders", but I bet a lot of it slides by because the little guy can't use a slingshot against the literary Goliaths.....I'm not implying Steve does this, just supposition on my part....

 

[Dana Jean]

And I know some stuff is old and public domain. Sometimes I read stuff and don't think about these things scattered throughout to give the story more realism.

But then every once in a while, I think, what's too much? How much can you use? When do they cross that line?

 

[GNTLGNT]

And I know some stuff is old and public domain. Sometimes I read stuff and don't think about these things scattered throughout to give the story more realism.

But then every once in a while, I think, what's too much? How much can you use? When do they cross that line?

 

[Dana Jean]

Oh believe me, I ask a sh*t ton of questions. I figure, I can't learn if I don't ask.

 

[Bev Vincent]

So, could an author directly quote a passage from another book?

For instance, let's say a character said something like,

This is such a good book Fran, listen to this: "The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed."

And you can use song lyrics as long as you give attribution?

Song lyrics are very, very tricky. Even a single line is a significant percentage of the total content of the song, so the rights holders generally argue that it is not covered under fair use. The people who hold the publishing rights to the lyrics (which may or may not be the people who wrote the song) can -- and do -- ask for fairly high fees to quote lyrics, fees that can be based on the number of copies of the work that will be sold. So, for a novel that has a million-copy first printing, it can add up fast.

Also, it is the responsibility of the author (not the publisher) to acquire and pay for these rights. King and his team had to do a lot of work and pay a significant amount of money for the rights to the lyrics quoted in Christine, for example. Often people get around this by paraphrasing rather than quoting directly: "That Eagles song about the hotel," which is a legitimate and free thing to do rather than quoting "On a dark desert highway..."

As far as quoting a passage from another book...I think that would be risky, too. The novel is not a critical work (where fair use generally applies)...it's a commercial work. I would request permission from the author/copyright holder. Those credits that appear on the copyright page aren't just attributions -- they represent permission sought and given for someone else's words to appear in the book.

For works of non-fiction, I always get a signed letter from the author of anything I quote, no matter how insignificant. For The Dark Tower Companion, where I included interviews with various people, I also obtained a letter allowing me to print the text of the interview in the book, even though the interview was conducted with the understanding that that was what was going to happen.