What Are You Reading? Part Deux

[Wayoftheredpanda]

Went back to reading Watchmen after not reading too much for a few weeks, I'm about 3/4 through the book, Issue 9. Right after

Spoiler

Rorschach gets broken out of prison and Hollis gets murdered by the thugs mistaking him for the current Nite Owl.

Brad Bird was definitely inspired by this in The Incredibles, in one of the interludes between issues Hollis Mason even mentions a death caused by a cape in his autobiography lol

 

[Edward John]

Went back to reading Watchmen after not reading too much for a few weeks, I'm about 3/4 through the book, Issue 9. Right after

Spoiler

Rorschach gets broken out of prison and Hollis gets murdered by the thugs mistaking him for the current Nite Owl.

Brad Bird was definitely inspired by this in The Incredibles, in one of the interludes between issues Hollis Mason even mentions a death caused by a cape in his autobiography lol

Alan Moore is incredibly underrated.

 

[Edward John]

Started a book called The Spartans by Paul Cartledge. It will be interesting. I have read books about greece and its classical period before but they are almost always centered on Athens. Sparta was just as powerful and probably more so. It won the 27 year long war between them and it controlled a more than three times bigger area than Athens. It will be interesting to hear the story of this time told from a spartan point of view.
(ironically, in spite of Athens being famous for its democracy, it was in Sparta that the position of the women was far better than in Athens. In Athens they were suppodsed to make and mend clothes, cook food and take care of the children and not be seen by other people than family and husband. In Sparta they owned land, influenced politics, participated in the olympics, and got an education which all were totally unthinkable in Athens.

this ...













is ....

















SPARTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

 

[Wayoftheredpanda]

Alan Moore is incredibly underrated.

Well, he is considered like the best Comic book author ever. He's certainly well respected by any comic book fan. I knew who he was even though I never was particularly interested in comics since 5th grade. Watchmen is good though, I like the realistic depictions of what superheroes would actually be like. I also like the idea that superheroes would significantly affect the 20th century so that history is significantly different in it's universe. How Dr. Manhattan caused America to win Vietnam, and how The Comedian was responsible for the JFK assassination (maybe my chemistry teacher was onto something).

 

[Edward John]

Well, he is considered like the best Comic book author ever. He's certainly well respected by any comic book fan. I knew who he was even though I never was particularly interested in comics since 5th grade. Watchmen is good though, I like the realistic depictions of what superheroes would actually be like. I also like the idea that superheroes would significantly affect the 20th century so that history is significantly different in it's universe. How Dr. Manhattan caused America to win Vietnam, and how The Comedian was responsible for the JFK assassination (maybe my chemistry teacher was onto something).

Well, it certainly wasn't Oswald who shot JFK. I meant that Alan Moore is underrated in the grand scheme of things, outside of the Comicbook world he is not appreciated for his literature. Their is a stigma in literature to Comic creators, and one is definately Alan Moore.

 

[Wayoftheredpanda]

W

Well, it certainly wasn't Oswald who shot JFK. I meant that Alan Moore is underrated in the grand scheme of things, outside of the Comicbook world he is not appreciated for his literature. Their is a stigma in literature to Comic creators, and one is definately Alan Moore.

mhm, I agree it's hypocritical to not count Comic Books as literature. They still have words on pages and plots. Same thing with the stigma that video games can't be art, it's so stupid, the people who say that clearly haven't heard of Hideo Kojima. One of the many reasons I hate Roger Ebert

 

[Kurben]

Got a new book today. Henry III The son of Magna Carta by Matthew Lewis. A rather forgotten King Perhaps because he was surrounded by strong personalities in both good and bad ways. His father was King John which meant that the how to be a King book was completely rewritten because of Magna Carta and he had to learn as he went along because his father left the country in a mess. His son was Edward I. But he was king for well over 50 years and is the king that have ruled the longest time in england. The only ones as far as i know, that have ruled longer are Queen Victoria and the present queen. I know almost nothing about him while i know quite a lot about his father and uncle, King john and the Lionheart, and his son, Edward I. I thought it was time to fill that gap. It has to wait a bit though as i'm in the middle of several other books but its something to look forward to.

History is strange. My interest start to crumble fast when we approach never times. In england after the Stuarts has played their role it starts to get uninteresting, IMO, the houses of Hannover (the George clan and victoria) and windsor are not fun at all. Same in sweden after 1720., In France it lies a little further ahead but after Napoleon i give up. In the states its a bit different maybe because you were still settling the land and are such a young nation. But after the indian wars are over in 1890 (Wounded Knee) it isn't fun anymore. The exceptions of course are the two world wars which are interesting if only because of their impact on our existence. And especially the second has such great villains! Hitler and his gang are interesting and so is his dictator pal Stalin.

 

[mal]

I'm reading all of the sai King novella books in chronological order, in preparation for 'If It Bleeds'. I'm hoping to grab a copy of 'IIB' when I seal myself up and go out for my tri-weekly Costco run next week.

 

[Edward John]

Got a new book today. Henry III The son of Magna Carta by Matthew Lewis. A rather forgotten King Perhaps because he was surrounded by strong personalities in both good and bad ways. His father was King John which meant that the how to be a King book was completely rewritten because of Magna Carta and he had to learn as he went along because his father left the country in a mess. His son was Edward I. But he was king for well over 50 years and is the king that have ruled the longest time in england. The only ones as far as i know, that have ruled longer are Queen Victoria and the present queen. I know almost nothing about him while i know quite a lot about his father and uncle, King john and the Lionheart, and his son, Edward I. I thought it was time to fill that gap. It has to wait a bit though as i'm in the middle of several other books but its something to look forward to.

History is strange. My interest start to crumble fast when we approach never times. In england after the Stuarts has played their role it starts to get uninteresting, IMO, the houses of Hannover (the George clan and victoria) and windsor are not fun at all. Same in sweden after 1720., In France it lies a little further ahead but after Napoleon i give up. In the states its a bit different maybe because you were still settling the land and are such a young nation. But after the indian wars are over in 1890 (Wounded Knee) it isn't fun anymore. The exceptions of course are the two world wars which are interesting if only because of their impact on our existence. And especially the second has such great villains! Hitler and his gang are interesting and so is his dictator pal Stalin.

Yep, don't know a thing about Henry III. Probably has somethingn to do with how famous his father and son were. Even King Stephen and Henry I seem more interesting. Apparentley he wanted to invade France but his invasion turned into a catastrophe. Along with the fact that the Church revolted against him.

 

[Kurben]

Yep, don't know a thing about Henry III. Probably has somethingn to do with how famous his father and son were. Even King Stephen and Henry I seem more interesting. Apparentley he wanted to invade France but his invasion turned into a catastrophe. Along with the fact that the Church revolted against him.

I tend to think that if you sit so long on the throne of england you had to influence something!! And i know he was the one that ordered the building of Westminster Abbey

 

[Edward John]

I tend to think that if you sit so long on the throne of england you had to influence something!! And i know he was the one that ordered the building of Westminster Abbey

Just doing some research about him suggest that from a military perspective he was not as intersting as his his descendents or predecessors.

 

[Dana Jean]

Unbury Carol.

Anyone read this?

 

[Edward John]

My study material.

 

[mal]

'The Possibility of Bleeding' by Stephane Roi

 

[Neesy]

'The Possibility of Bleeding' by Stephane Roi

You numbnuts!

I actually copied and pasted this, as I thought it was a new book...

Spoiler: facepalm

and then it hit me

 

[Wayoftheredpanda]

My stream of conscience rant of sorts I wrote about the Ending of Watchmen at 12 am on Friday night after finishing the book below.

 

[Wayoftheredpanda]

I finished Watchmen on Friday. And I have to say, I absolutely loved it, asides from the ending. I’m fine with bad endings, I’m fine with open endings, and an ending where the villain actually gets what they want is extremely interesting, it was interesting here and I was really invested in it, but that’s not my problem with the ending. The characters were great, the story was great, the writing was great, the art was great. But the ending just filled me with a disappointed sense of anger, and I’m sure that was possibly the point. My dad is a huge fan of the original comic and the 2009 film, and when I tried to explain my dissatisfaction and feeling of underwhelment with the ending he was like “What, you’re mad that the villain was evil?”, which made me mad because he completely missed my point and what I was trying to say. This might be an unpopular, or possibly biased opinion. But this is my stream of conciseness on why I hated it.

Spoiler: Watchmen (original comic)

I thought the climax was phenomenal. The feeling of loss when Ozymandias tells Nite Owl and Rorschach that it’s already too late, that they were half an hour too late to stop his grand plan, all after distracting them with a large Bond villain speech. I thought the characterization of him as a villain, or rather an Anti-villain, was phenomenal. I HATED HIM, and very rarely does any piece of fiction make me hate a villain like they’re a real person, the only other example I can think of is Percy from The Green Mile. I thought the fact that his larger than life terrorist attack on New York was a great way to solidify him as someone to hate, the self-righteous, self-glorifying, god-complex, penultimate anti-villain he is, someone so caught up in their ambitious plan to be a hero that they completely go past the line of sanity. I respected it, I admired the balls to do it, and I thought it gave the perfect kick to our heroes that their once Ally was truly not who they thought he was, and that he deserved retribution for his actions. Their battle with him felt earned, after all their hard work he gets what he wants, so he needs to pay. If they can’t get a happy ending, he shouldn’t too.





It was great, all until he turned on the television screens, all before he raised his arms into the air and screamed “I DID IT”. It wasn’t even a matter of his plan working perfectly as he intended, after all, the book reminds you that somethings never change (I forget the exact quote, so I’m paraphrasing), anyone will know that his utopia will come crashing down soon enough. My problem is, after all their work, after what he did to them, how he betrayed all of them. The moment they see the TV screens and the news that the Cold War and possibly World War III has ended, everyone but Rorschach is like “Goddammit, you are right, we can’t stop you. Your plan worked.”. They seem to completely forget everyone he murdered, his secretary, The Comedian, the countless people he purposefully gave cancer, his loyal handymen, half of New York, his goddamn mutant cat. And only Rorschach can see the fault in this.





Like I said, I thought the climax was incredibly written, but I wanted to see the goddamn self-glorifying terrorist be beaten to a bloody pulp. They were all there, all of them, he might have been strong, but 3 fit humans and a god-like being could have overpowered him. The rest of the world didn’t need to know who was really behind the attack on New York, I just wanted them to beat Ozzy to a bloody pulp and leave him to die in his antarctic base. And very rarely do I genuinely wish that upon a character.





Instead, they sit there and accept it, submit to his New World, and leave him to continue his stupid billion dollar franchise based around himself. Guy goddamn makes action figures of himself, he doesn’t really care about the fate of humanity, just his own self-image. Only Rorschach sees the fault.





Rorschach, the purest form of Anti-hero, if Ozymandias is the purest form of Anti-villain. The character meant to be controversial, the very definition of vigilante, a character you agree and disagree with all throughout the book. A character you may not like or agree with, but a compelling one you end up caring about none-the-less. Rorschach, of course he would be the only one to realize how wrong submitting to Veidt’s Utopia is. The only one to see that the people need to know the true monster behind it all. And what does he get for at least trying to set things straight?





Get blown to hell by Dr. Manhattan. Only a chapter after he has that heartfelt exchange with Nite Owl on how he truly considers him a real friend. Showing that there’s something more to him than just being a violent vigilante too obsessed with justice. He may have been flawed, may have been a bit of an extremist, but he at least tried to do the right things in the end.





To repeat myself. I was not dissappointed in the ending being a bleak one. But I wanted to see Ozymandias get his just desserts, even if it was just between the main characters and the reader. The world’s largest hypocrite, being nothing more than what he was thought he was stopping. Instead, he just gets to keep on in his warped perception of a perfect world, unharmed, unfeeling, just him and his stupid merchandise. And again, I really liked this book, and I at least like the last few panels showing the kid at the New Frontiersman picking up the diary to maybe realize the truth behind the matter, up to me or other readers, of course.

I’m not particularly interested in watching the new HBO spin-off, or the unofficial sequel comic, Doomsday Clock. Possibly I’ll watch the film, my dad owns the blu-ray, so it wouldn’t be an inconvenience to find it. This stream of conscience rant about the ending wasn’t meant to diminish the book or Alan Moore’s writing, or even those who liked the ending. I wanted to get just my initial opinions out of the way somewhere, even if they might be controversial. You can feel a different way, I’m fine with that. I just don’t want to be told I’m wrong or “You just didn’t understand it”, as a lot of internet fandoms like saying. Thanks for reading this random stream of conscience all the way through, especially if you also read the comic.


Other than that, I praise the book. I enjoyed the story and was invested in the characters. It feels refreshing to read a superhero story that’s this original.

Also a working clock of the Comedian’s smiley pin and the blood stain in the shape of a clock hand would be rad.

 

[Wayoftheredpanda]

I finished Watchmen on Friday. And I have to say, I absolutely loved it, asides from the ending. I’m fine with bad endings, I’m fine with open endings, and an ending where the villain actually gets what they want is extremely interesting, it was interesting here and I was really invested in it, but that’s not my problem with the ending. The characters were great, the story was great, the writing was great, the art was great. But the ending just filled me with a disappointed sense of anger, and I’m sure that was possibly the point. My dad is a huge fan of the original comic and the 2009 film, and when I tried to explain my dissatisfaction and feeling of underwhelment with the ending he was like “What, you’re mad that the villain was evil?”, which made me mad because he completely missed my point and what I was trying to say. This might be an unpopular, or possibly biased opinion. But this is my stream of conciseness on why I hated it.

Spoiler: Watchmen (original comic)

I thought the climax was phenomenal. The feeling of loss when Ozymandias tells Nite Owl and Rorschach that it’s already too late, that they were half an hour too late to stop his grand plan, all after distracting them with a large Bond villain speech. I thought the characterization of him as a villain, or rather an Anti-villain, was phenomenal. I HATED HIM, and very rarely does any piece of fiction make me hate a villain like they’re a real person, the only other example I can think of is Percy from The Green Mile. I thought the fact that his larger than life terrorist attack on New York was a great way to solidify him as someone to hate, the self-righteous, self-glorifying, god-complex, penultimate anti-villain he is, someone so caught up in their ambitious plan to be a hero that they completely go past the line of sanity. I respected it, I admired the balls to do it, and I thought it gave the perfect kick to our heroes that their once Ally was truly not who they thought he was, and that he deserved retribution for his actions. Their battle with him felt earned, after all their hard work he gets what he wants, so he needs to pay. If they can’t get a happy ending, he shouldn’t too.





It was great, all until he turned on the television screens, all before he raised his arms into the air and screamed “I DID IT”. It wasn’t even a matter of his plan working perfectly as he intended, after all, the book reminds you that somethings never change (I forget the exact quote, so I’m paraphrasing), anyone will know that his utopia will come crashing down soon enough. My problem is, after all their work, after what he did to them, how he betrayed all of them. The moment they see the TV screens and the news that the Cold War and possibly World War III has ended, everyone but Rorschach is like “Goddammit, you are right, we can’t stop you. Your plan worked.”. They seem to completely forget everyone he murdered, his secretary, The Comedian, the countless people he purposefully gave cancer, his loyal handymen, half of New York, his goddamn mutant cat. And only Rorschach can see the fault in this.





Like I said, I thought the climax was incredibly written, but I wanted to see the goddamn self-glorifying terrorist be beaten to a bloody pulp. They were all there, all of them, he might have been strong, but 3 fit humans and a god-like being could have overpowered him. The rest of the world didn’t need to know who was really behind the attack on New York, I just wanted them to beat Ozzy to a bloody pulp and leave him to die in his antarctic base. And very rarely do I genuinely wish that upon a character.





Instead, they sit there and accept it, submit to his New World, and leave him to continue his stupid billion dollar franchise based around himself. Guy goddamn makes action figures of himself, he doesn’t really care about the fate of humanity, just his own self-image. Only Rorschach sees the fault.





Rorschach, the purest form of Anti-hero, if Ozymandias is the purest form of Anti-villain. The character meant to be controversial, the very definition of vigilante, a character you agree and disagree with all throughout the book. A character you may not like or agree with, but a compelling one you end up caring about none-the-less. Rorschach, of course he would be the only one to realize how wrong submitting to Veidt’s Utopia is. The only one to see that the people need to know the true monster behind it all. And what does he get for at least trying to set things straight?





Get blown to hell by Dr. Manhattan. Only a chapter after he has that heartfelt exchange with Nite Owl on how he truly considers him a real friend. Showing that there’s something more to him than just being a violent vigilante too obsessed with justice. He may have been flawed, may have been a bit of an extremist, but he at least tried to do the right things in the end.





To repeat myself. I was not dissappointed in the ending being a bleak one. But I wanted to see Ozymandias get his just desserts, even if it was just between the main characters and the reader. The world’s largest hypocrite, being nothing more than what he was thought he was stopping. Instead, he just gets to keep on in his warped perception of a perfect world, unharmed, unfeeling, just him and his stupid merchandise. And again, I really liked this book, and I at least like the last few panels showing the kid at the New Frontiersman picking up the diary to maybe realize the truth behind the matter, up to me or other readers, of course.

I’m not particularly interested in watching the new HBO spin-off, or the unofficial sequel comic, Doomsday Clock. Possibly I’ll watch the film, my dad owns the blu-ray, so it wouldn’t be an inconvenience to find it. This stream of conscience rant about the ending wasn’t meant to diminish the book or Alan Moore’s writing, or even those who liked the ending. I wanted to get just my initial opinions out of the way somewhere, even if they might be controversial. You can feel a different way, I’m fine with that. I just don’t want to be told I’m wrong or “You just didn’t understand it”, as a lot of internet fandoms like saying. Thanks for reading this random stream of conscience all the way through, especially if you also read the comic.


Other than that, I praise the book. I enjoyed the story and was invested in the characters. It feels refreshing to read a superhero story that’s this original.

Also a working clock of the Comedian’s smiley pin and the blood stain in the shape of a clock hand would be rad.

I definitely understand what Moore was going for, but I still just feel underwhelmed not by the actual big climax, but just the complete lack of action from the main characters afterwards. I liked the ending of The Stand, and this one has a similar ending of sorts, but I can't really explain to the full extent why. I know a lot of people hated The Stand ending, but I didn't. Hm.

 

[Edward John]

I definitely understand what Moore was going for, but I still just feel underwhelmed not by the actual big climax, but just the complete lack of action from the main characters afterwards. I liked the ending of The Stand, and this one has a similar ending of sorts, but I can't really explain to the full extent why. I know a lot of people hated The Stand ending, but I didn't. Hm.


View attachment 34991

The thing is, Owl and Rorshach attempted to stop Veight in a fight and he demonstrated just how hilariously outmatched they were. Veight dealt with Owl and Rorshache like they were nothing, there was no way they were attempting it again. But in many ways Veight is the hero of the book, he understood that war was inevitable and acted accordingly, did he do terrible things, yes, did he save the planet also, yes, its one of the twists of the book that you find out that whoever is responsible for all this did it in the name of the greater good. The fact that Veight is the savior of the planet is Moore's way of making a statement about how screwed society during that period was, but he did what his role model, Alexander, he united the world. This book is amazing though, interesting opinions.

 

[Wayoftheredpanda]

The thing is, Owl and Rorshach attempted to stop Veight in a fight and he demonstrated just how hilariously outmatched they were. Veight dealt with Owl and Rorshache like they were nothing, there was no way they were attempting it again. But in many ways Veight is the hero of the book, he understood that war was inevitable and acted accordingly, did he do terrible things, yes, did he save the planet also, yes, its one of the twists of the book that you find out that whoever is responsible for all this did it in the name of the greater good. The fact that Veight is the savior of the planet is Moore's way of making a statement about how screwed society during that period was, but he did what his role model, Alexander, he united the world. This book is amazing though, interesting opinions.

Anti-villain, yes. I can’t say he’s the hero of the book just because he prevented World War 3 by murdering a crap ton of innocent people to get there, and then acting so smug and self-righteous about it. It’s the same as any of other army he’s trying to stop. And I get that’s the point. You know he’s not going to feel guilty about it by his grand display of how good he believes he is. He clearly doesn’t really care about the world, he just needs another reason to tell himself that he’s the next Ramses or Alexander. He’s just going to continue selling perfume and action figures and self help books to people who are none-the-wiser. Really cementing him as a punchable face. Oh well, I understand the point and enjoyed the rest of the book.