It's on the review thread.
What went wrong?
- Thread starter The Mad Dog of Gilead
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Why aren't fans of the book, allowed to be outraged by this abortion? It was a joke from the casting to the final credits. I did pay money to see it and don't feel like I wasted ten bucks but sure would have liked an attempt an adaptation. What was presented is a chicken **** cop out Hollywood formula comic book. If that is ok with some then I'm glad for you. Just remember that fans of the book series are allowed an opinion too and it will be vastly different.
well the first answer to your question is that people who are fans of the series also liked the movie. your outrage doesn't make you more of a fan than someone else. phrasing, my friend, phrasing. the second answer is, nobody told you that you're not allowed to have your own opinion. at best some people said that those that are refusing to even see it don't have much of a leg to stand on with complaints. or that basing your thoughts on the movie entirely in the context of the book without considering its merits as an actual movie is a bit unfair, in the case of the movies extremely skewed 18% RT score.
Please. If you don't like the movie you are labeled a racist or a hater. That mantra was started by the director who actually said eff you to the constant readers who bemoaned the casting choice. If you didn't read the books it is a decent Hollywood super hero movie. If you did read the books do NOT go see this with any expectations. It is not an adaptation and to it's credit doesn't claim to be.
Did you see the movie?The long and short of it is the film failed for three reasons, none of them having anything to do with fans who read the books.
1. It isn't good. It isn't terrible. It isn't bad. It is simply isn't good.
2. The Studio didn't promote it at all. Thus, even the percentage of people who might have enjoyed it didn't turn up.
3. Aside from not being good, it brought nothing new to the table. This was Hollywood schlock we have seen a 100 times.
I'm going to be brutally honest here, tell the truth and shame the devil. The people who are most forgiving and seem to like the film are the very people everyone was certain would hate it. People who read the books by in large are forgiving that it bears no resemblance to them. Why? Well we had a year to kind of go through the stages of grief. We wanted to like it, so we kind of talked ourselves into it.We aren't the problem though. The vast majority of popcorn devouring, soda gargling movie-goers are less well-read than we. They haven't read the series. Some might not even know there were books. They are judging the film purely on how it compares to others and whether it delivers the goods. It didn't. The audiences didn't warm up to it, or at the very least didn't find it interesting enough to drop their shiny coins in the bucket. Audiences, well-read or not, are much more sophisticated than anyone wants to give them credit for these days. They have seen a lot of movies. If you want to wow them, get them into a theater, and blow their socks off you can't just recycle the same damn story you have sold them a thousand times just by changing the names of the protagonist and generic, evil for evil's sake villain. Give them something they haven't seen, don't dumb it down, but sharpen it up and you put butts in seats.
At the very least, you have to show them something they have seen before but in a new light. Let's get down and dirty show we? How about I do a point by point breakdown comparing this film to the Last Action Hero starring big Arnold. It too is about a boy who travels to another world and brings a larger than life hero into what is supposedly the real world. That is also not a good film. My point is that it is almost the same story, albeit one played for laughs rather than melodrama. In fact, I'm betting if I put my mind to it, I could come up with TEN films which revolve around three main characters with one White Hat, one Black Hat, and one catalyst (male or female) and the stakes being the end of the world/universe. They would all have pretty much the same plot. Reluctant, jaded hero brought back to fight the big bad by the intervention of the younger, innocent or at least optimistic catalyst. I'll even go so far as to say the reluctant, jaded hero will be stoic and gruff with a heart of gold. The villain will be crazy and just appear to delight in being evil for no apparent reason. I could go on, but I won't. Most of you reading this know EXACTLY what I'm talking about and in the course of my description you are probably already on the way to filling out your own list of ten films.
Robert Gray
Well-Known Member
Yes. I broke down and went to see it. I haven't written a review because, well... what could I say that hasn't been said already?
Yes, you've said plenty. I will move your comments to that thread as basically, it is your review.
sorry, i didn't realize you were just here to be belligerent about it. sorry for answering your question seriously.
I do believe you are the one that started with a certain "tone" and people responded in kind.
Dislike whatever you like, but don't presume to cloak yourself in the mantle of "REAL fan" because you didn't like what was clearly labeled and marketed as a continuation of the story not an adaptation. And don't presume that anyone here is labeling your rant as racist because they disagree with you. Be as pissed as you want at the director if he said that, but don't bring it here.
You're mad that you didn't get what you wanted. Perfectly acceptable. You think you are somehow better or more pure as a constant reader because of those feelings: not so okay. We can disagree without being insulting or abrasive. That is a hallmark of this forum, with very few exceptions. If you want to insult people, go and find a subreddit on which to vent--I'm sure there are some truly nasty, DT hating ones there--then come back here when you can respect others.
I think fans should be allowed to come here and say they didn't like The Dark Tower film. I could tell that jt0565 was upset about the movie, but I don't really see where he was being insulting. He didn't say he was the only "real" fan. He actually said it was a pretty good Hollywood super hero movie, and noted that, to its credit, it doesn't claim to be an adaptation of the novels.
Some of you, in my opinion, are being more insulting to those that don't like the movie, even after they go in not expecting a clear adaptation of the books. It is possible for those who watched it to not like the movie as a sequel to the books. Many members here seem to want to give it a chance, and that's good. Some of us so want our favorite author's magnum opus movie to succeed, no matter what. What I guess I don't understand is the complaining about the complaining. I know some posts come off as maybe a bit heated, but these people are passionate about Stephen King, the Dark Tower novels, and the Dark Tower world, and I think they should be able to come here and state their opinions without so much complaining about that.
I don't know if I'm making myself clear or not, but can I just say that Mr. King's Dark Tower novels mean a great deal to me, just as I know they do to many, many people here on this board? I don't think I'm a purist, but I will say I was upset that these books, which mean so so much to me, were not going to be represented even closely in film. I don't like to be described as a purist just because I wanted a movie that closely resembled the books. I don't believe people who opine that they don't like the movie are saying, "I told you so," or trying to feel superior, nor do I think we should call their objections "wailing" or "lamenting." That can be construed as insulting in the first place, which is why maybe some come in to these threads with guns blazing, trying to state their negative view of the movie, and maybe coming off as a little more passionate than they meant to be.
The OP (The Mad Dog of Gilead) had some good ideas for the movie. Even though he hadn't seen it, he made it clear he was basing his opinions on reviews, which a lot of people do. Some of you were very insulting to him; some of you who normally aren't, and that surprised me. He was presenting opinions of the movie based on reviews, remember. His post was LOL'ed, called tiresome and moaning, called a "cool story" sarcastically, told Rotten Tomatoes ratings were "punishment" from fans (how do we know that?), yet he came back very respectfully saying, "Great point...", to which I give him all kinds of credit.
Have I seen the movie? No. Will I? No. People always say, "Well, the books will always be there if you don't like the movie," but I'm one of those people that, once I see a movie, it's hard for me to visualize the characters/settings/etc. without picturing them as I saw them on the screen. If you can watch the movie and still picture Roland as you first did, or not let someone else's creative visualizations change your idea of a plot point, then the movie probably won't affect your reading. Movies affect my reading; they change things in my head, and I never want that to happen to Roland and his Ka-tet. And even though I haven't seen the movie, just reading people's ideas here on the board has me hopeful that it is a good film, and that non-fans will pick up the books and read them through to the end. I can read the negative thoughts as well, without getting mad at the person that posts them. I have felt very frustrated from the beginning of this project, and am just plain confused as to why Mr. King wanted a film made (from what I've read here) with some characters from his magnum opus, but not much to do with the actual story.
I haven't had much to say about the movie, so I guess I felt like I had to say it now. Please try to understand that fans are confused and upset. Most of you keep saying to have an open mind about a movie that has little to do with the source material. You should also keep an open mind that part of liking a movie can, for some people, be how closely it does resemble the books. That is a big thing for a lot of people, and calling them names and laughing at them only frustrates them more. I felt those insults, almost as if they were directed to me, because I have felt some of the same things they have. I think most of the fans of the books can say they would have liked a movie or series that closely followed the plot of the novels. Am I wrong thinking that? I really don't think so. If you're a fan of the books, and you like the movie for what it is, I am so glad, truly. I just can't be one of those people, and I hope you can accept that respectfully. If Stephen King didn't write Book 8, then I'm just simply not interested in seeing others try to add on to a journey that I found totally life-changing and always want it to be that way in my heart.
Wow. Sorry for having an opinion that is not exactly like yours. I don't think I was insulting anyone but the idiot who took the film in the direction he did.
I also don't think I'm somehow a more pure fan as you put it but thanks for letting me know how I feel.
I assume we all enjoyed the books which is why we are here. Differing opinions regarding the film is inevitable and I do apologize if I offended anyone. I'm not going to apologize for my opinion or expressing it though.
I think fans should be allowed to come here and say they didn't like The Dark Tower film. I could tell that jt0565 was upset about the movie, but I don't really see where he was being insulting. He didn't say he was the only "real" fan. He actually said it was a pretty good Hollywood super hero movie, and noted that, to its credit, it doesn't claim to be an adaptation of the novels.
Some of you, in my opinion, are being more insulting to those that don't like the movie, even after they go in not expecting a clear adaptation of the books. It is possible for those who watched it to not like the movie as a sequel to the books. Many members here seem to want to give it a chance, and that's good. Some of us so want our favorite author's magnum opus movie to succeed, no matter what. What I guess I don't understand is the complaining about the complaining. I know some posts come off as maybe a bit heated, but these people are passionate about Stephen King, the Dark Tower novels, and the Dark Tower world, and I think they should be able to come here and state their opinions without so much complaining about that.
I don't know if I'm making myself clear or not, but can I just say that Mr. King's Dark Tower novels mean a great deal to me, just as I know they do to many, many people here on this board? I don't think I'm a purist, but I will say I was upset that these books, which mean so so much to me, were not going to be represented even closely in film. I don't like to be described as a purist just because I wanted a movie that closely resembled the books. I don't believe people who opine that they don't like the movie are saying, "I told you so," or trying to feel superior, nor do I think we should call their objections "wailing" or "lamenting." That can be construed as insulting in the first place, which is why maybe some come in to these threads with guns blazing, trying to state their negative view of the movie, and maybe coming off as a little more passionate than they meant to be.
The OP (The Mad Dog of Gilead) had some good ideas for the movie. Even though he hadn't seen it, he made it clear he was basing his opinions on reviews, which a lot of people do. Some of you were very insulting to him; some of you who normally aren't, and that surprised me. He was presenting opinions of the movie based on reviews, remember. His post was LOL'ed, called tiresome and moaning, called a "cool story" sarcastically, told Rotten Tomatoes ratings were "punishment" from fans (how do we know that?), yet he came back very respectfully saying, "Great point...", to which I give him all kinds of credit.
Have I seen the movie? No. Will I? No. People always say, "Well, the books will always be there if you don't like the movie," but I'm one of those people that, once I see a movie, it's hard for me to visualize the characters/settings/etc. without picturing them as I saw them on the screen. If you can watch the movie and still picture Roland as you first did, or not let someone else's creative visualizations change your idea of a plot point, then the movie probably won't affect your reading. Movies affect my reading; they change things in my head, and I never want that to happen to Roland and his Ka-tet. And even though I haven't seen the movie, just reading people's ideas here on the board has me hopeful that it is a good film, and that non-fans will pick up the books and read them through to the end. I can read the negative thoughts as well, without getting mad at the person that posts them. I have felt very frustrated from the beginning of this project, and am just plain confused as to why Mr. King wanted a film made (from what I've read here) with some characters from his magnum opus, but not much to do with the actual story.
I haven't had much to say about the movie, so I guess I felt like I had to say it now. Please try to understand that fans are confused and upset. Most of you keep saying to have an open mind about a movie that has little to do with the source material. You should also keep an open mind that part of liking a movie can, for some people, be how closely it does resemble the books. That is a big thing for a lot of people, and calling them names and laughing at them only frustrates them more. I felt those insults, almost as if they were directed to me, because I have felt some of the same things they have. I think most of the fans of the books can say they would have liked a movie or series that closely followed the plot of the novels. Am I wrong thinking that? I really don't think so. If you're a fan of the books, and you like the movie for what it is, I am so glad, truly. I just can't be one of those people, and I hope you can accept that respectfully. If Stephen King didn't write Book 8, then I'm just simply not interested in seeing others try to add on to a journey that I found totally life-changing and always want it to be that way in my heart.
my reference to a punishment rating was based on the fact that i've seen the movie, and while i agree that it's not all that faithful as an adaptation, 18% puts it on par with some of the worst movies that are out there. it's overly harsh. it wasn't meant to be insulting, i'm just calling it like i see it.
as far as the other post, his first post clearly implied that only fans of the books hated this movie when he said "fans of the book series are allowed an opinon too" as if those being positive weren't fans. that's why i said "phrasing" in my rather mild response that was then responded to with a very belligerent rant about being called a racist, which nobody did. if that's not what he meant, he could have easily said so in his next post rather than the scornful way he did respond. sorry, but those posts earned their backlash.
can't really speak to all the responses to the OP, because as i said, i wasn't trying to particularly be insulting, just calling what i saw, both here and elsewhere, because there's also a certain subset of fans who refuse to even see the movie, and who are also giving it terrible marks, while having no idea exactly what they're scoring, because they refuse to see it.
ETA: maybe the overly negative responses from people who closed their mind to this movie a long time ago have worn on some people's patience, and they're lashing out reflexively. i don't think everyone who liked it is intentionally trying to attack those who didn't.
I not overly familiar with Rotten Tomatoes, so my question is: Is there a way to tell if the 18% rating is from people who want to punish the film for not following the books? Or are you just assuming it is overly harsh because you don't agree with their opinions? And if movie goers base their liking or disliking a film based on how well it presents the source material, should their opinions be discounted? The sticking close to the novels may actually be one of their top criteria to how they judge a movie, so naturally, it affects their opinion of the movie. If I wrote a book about my life, and someone made a movie of it with "Dana" in it, but the movie was about my being a celebrity who dated Johnny Depp at one time, and ended up marrying Stephen King and becoming his muse, I might actually like the movie IF I didn't care that they didn't tell my true story. Those of us who want the true story, use that criteria to judge a movie, and so I think it's okay for someone to dislike the movie based on that. Some people don't use that as a judgment point, and that's okay too.
When jt0565 said, "...fans of the book series are allowed an opinion too," I took it to mean that he was a fan of the book series being followed and represented by the movie. Maybe I'm wrong, but if so, I can still understand his stance. Hell, maybe I am more of a purist than I think I am. I can understand someone thinking that one can't be a "true" fan of the books if one doesn't mind watching a movie that is Dark Tower-based in title and a couple of character names only. I'm not saying that's the way it is, because there are plenty of members here who I know love the books as much as I, and like the movie too. I'm just saying I have trouble understanding that point of view because again, I don't want to read or watch anything that isn't what Stephen King envisaged for his DT world. I can see where the being-called-a-racist remark came out of the blue, so can understand that backlash. I just think he was tired of people thinking he doesn't like the movie based on casting a black actor for Roland when he obviously has other reasons for his dislike of the movie.
I didn't think you were being insulting. I just think some of the people who haven't seen the movie and are saying they don't like it, are people who wanted a true adaptation, not another "turn of the wheel," as some call it, and if that's the case, they have a right to an opinion too.
i can see where you're coming from to a certain degree. i just think that the movie is never as good as the book as a general rule, so it kind of just sets yourself up to be upset. and based on the fact that it's almost never as good as the book, that IMO (and that's always the way it was, we'll have to agree to disagree) that yes, it's a bit harsh to not consider its merits as a movie just because it fails as an adaptation (which is where the RT score comes into my argument). it could lead some people to start reading the novels, and i'd consider that a positive outcome. i don't consider that the same as disregarding someone's opinion for disliking it, i'm fully aware that some will not like it because it fails as an adaptation. i'm more concerned that there seems to be a grouping of fans actively rooting for it to fail, and doing their best to convince everyone it sucks and not to go see it because it's not what they wanted. i'll agree that there's been harsh response, on both sides of the matter.
ETA: i'm not accusing anyone here in particular of being those fans who are wishing to sabotage it because it's not what they wanted. it' s something i've seen expressed in other places though.
I would never suggest that anyone here is not a fan or that I am somehow more of a fan. After reading through my posts however I can see how it could have been taken that way. I sincerely apologise to anyone I offended with my remarks. Nor am I trying to convince anyone not to go see the film. If you haven't read the books it will be entertaining. If you have read them there is enough to make it worth the ten bucks.
I'm will always be mad that when this thing finally got the green light the decision was made to film a sequel to the novels. It seems lazy and uninspired to me. Then the director literally told anyone who didn't like the casting choice "if you don't like it Feck you, you are nothing but a racist."
So I was simply trying to say that it seems like anything said in the negative about this film is being met with open hostility. I didn't get that point across very well and for that I cry pardon.
I'm will always be mad that when this thing finally got the green light the decision was made to film a sequel to the novels. It seems lazy and uninspired to me. Then the director literally told anyone who didn't like the casting choice "if you don't like it Feck you, you are nothing but a racist."
So I was simply trying to say that it seems like anything said in the negative about this film is being met with open hostility. I didn't get that point across very well and for that I cry pardon.
I'll respond to this since you lifted most of my wording.
I think fans should be allowed to come here and say they didn't like The Dark Tower film. I could tell that jt0565 was upset about the movie, but I don't really see where he was being insulting. He didn't say he was the only "real" fan. He actually said it was a pretty good Hollywood super hero movie, and noted that, to its credit, it doesn't claim to be an adaptation of the novels.
Some of you, in my opinion, are being more insulting to those that don't like the movie, even after they go in not expecting a clear adaptation of the books. It is possible for those who watched it to not like the movie as a sequel to the books. Many members here seem to want to give it a chance, and that's good. Some of us so want our favorite author's magnum opus movie to succeed, no matter what. What I guess I don't understand is the complaining about the complaining. I know some posts come off as maybe a bit heated, but these people are passionate about Stephen King, the Dark Tower novels, and the Dark Tower world, and I think they should be able to come here and state their opinions without so much complaining about that.
I don't know if I'm making myself clear or not, but can I just say that Mr. King's Dark Tower novels mean a great deal to me, just as I know they do to many, many people here on this board? I don't think I'm a purist, but I will say I was upset that these books, which mean so so much to me, were not going to be represented even closely in film. I don't like to be described as a purist just because I wanted a movie that closely resembled the books. I don't believe people who opine that they don't like the movie are saying, "I told you so," or trying to feel superior, nor do I think we should call their objections "wailing" or "lamenting." That can be construed as insulting in the first place, which is why maybe some come in to these threads with guns blazing, trying to state their negative view of the movie, and maybe coming off as a little more passionate than they meant to be.
The OP (The Mad Dog of Gilead) had some good ideas for the movie. Even though he hadn't seen it, he made it clear he was basing his opinions on reviews, which a lot of people do. Some of you were very insulting to him; some of you who normally aren't, and that surprised me. He was presenting opinions of the movie based on reviews, remember. His post was LOL'ed, called tiresome and moaning, called a "cool story" sarcastically, told Rotten Tomatoes ratings were "punishment" from fans (how do we know that?), yet he came back very respectfully saying, "Great point...", to which I give him all kinds of credit.
Have I seen the movie? No. Will I? No. People always say, "Well, the books will always be there if you don't like the movie," but I'm one of those people that, once I see a movie, it's hard for me to visualize the characters/settings/etc. without picturing them as I saw them on the screen. If you can watch the movie and still picture Roland as you first did, or not let someone else's creative visualizations change your idea of a plot point, then the movie probably won't affect your reading. Movies affect my reading; they change things in my head, and I never want that to happen to Roland and his Ka-tet. And even though I haven't seen the movie, just reading people's ideas here on the board has me hopeful that it is a good film, and that non-fans will pick up the books and read them through to the end. I can read the negative thoughts as well, without getting mad at the person that posts them. I have felt very frustrated from the beginning of this project, and am just plain confused as to why Mr. King wanted a film made (from what I've read here) with some characters from his magnum opus, but not much to do with the actual story.
I haven't had much to say about the movie, so I guess I felt like I had to say it now. Please try to understand that fans are confused and upset. Most of you keep saying to have an open mind about a movie that has little to do with the source material. You should also keep an open mind that part of liking a movie can, for some people, be how closely it does resemble the books. That is a big thing for a lot of people, and calling them names and laughing at them only frustrates them more. I felt those insults, almost as if they were directed to me, because I have felt some of the same things they have. I think most of the fans of the books can say they would have liked a movie or series that closely followed the plot of the novels. Am I wrong thinking that? I really don't think so. If you're a fan of the books, and you like the movie for what it is, I am so glad, truly. I just can't be one of those people, and I hope you can accept that respectfully. If Stephen King didn't write Book 8, then I'm just simply not interested in seeing others try to add on to a journey that I found totally life-changing and always want it to be that way in my heart.
Not one person has said someone with a negative review can't post it without being condemned. There have been quite a few people who just didn't like it, said so without the insults, and contributed to the conversation.
Just as they have a right to hate the film, I have a right to call someone a purist -- which I'm not sure why you are seeing that as a bad thing. It's not. It's just what they are. They wanted to see a pure adaptation and they didn't get it. I don't begrudge that. Where the lamenting and pearl clutching comes in is when someone goes off on a tangent when they haven't even seen the movie. Once they do, and they still feel the same way, it's a whole different ball game.
We're all fans of this story and very passionate about it. And we all have a right to our truth. Everyone is getting their say. Just direct the negative in the right direction.