Anyone else think that movies aren't the same?

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Lord Tyrion

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Oct 24, 2013
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Earlier in my life, I took up film criticism as a hobby. I read many reviews of films and enjoyed discussing the latest films with fellow fans. As the years went by, I started watching less movies and started gravitating towards TV and its golden age. I think a part of it is the blockbuster model that hasn't quite worked for me. I love a good summer blockbuster (I loved the Dark Knight), but many of them are repetitive and overblown. It also seems like there are less interesting mysteries, thrillers and dramas that we had in the 90s and 00s.

Here's a link from an Indiewire article.
7 Really Bad Things About the Film Business in 2014 | Indiewire

Thoughts?
 

fushingfeef

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Aug 14, 2009
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Interesting article, and I couldn't agree more. Don't look to Hollywood to make movies for adults except for the occasional token status project. Spectacle has been the order of the day for the last 15 years or so. The last great film era (in the USA, at least) was in the late 80's/early 90's when indie films got "discovered" by Hollywood.

Indie film will always be around, it just might not be in your local megaplex theater--look for more on-demand, Netflix, online and small local arthouse theaters to get your indie fix. Also, surprisingly premium television has produced more adult content than ever before.

And don't forget the foreign market, there are still great films being made all around the world, but Hollywood hasn't caught on yet...and may never, until it's too late.
 

Lord Tyrion

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Oct 24, 2013
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Interesting article, and I couldn't agree more. Don't look to Hollywood to make movies for adults except for the occasional token status project. Spectacle has been the order of the day for the last 15 years or so. The last great film era (in the USA, at least) was in the late 80's/early 90's when indie films got "discovered" by Hollywood.

Indie film will always be around, it just might not be in your local megaplex theater--look for more on-demand, Netflix, online and small local arthouse theaters to get your indie fix. Also, surprisingly premium television has produced more adult content than ever before.

And don't forget the foreign market, there are still great films being made all around the world, but Hollywood hasn't caught on yet...and may never, until it's too late.

It's hard to pinpoint when exactly the change took place. The mid and late 90s had some great films. I feel like the Star Wars prequels and Michael Bay films killed the movies with these over the top spectacles with weak stories.

Oscar season will still provide some solid films. From September to December, the great filmmakers will release their films. This year we have Gone Girl, Interstellar and Inheret Vice (I'm sure there are some others). Inside Llewyn Davis and Her were great films from last year. The problem is that the rest of the year, we get a lot of cookie cutter films.
 

Mr Nobody

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Jul 9, 2008
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I have to agree. Movies just don't seem as good anymore and risks just aren't taken. The last film I can think of that seemed risky, off the top of my head, was probably The Matrix, and iirc that was a 1999 release.
For me, it probably began to change when movies went from 'a thing to entertain that hopefully also makes a sh*t-ton of cash' to 'a thing to make a sh*t-ton of cash that hopefully also entertains'. It's hard to imagine Blade Runner getting made today. Sure, there's the sequel in the pipeline, but if it wasn't a sequel...?
Obviously each film costs money and the studios want to make more back than they lay out - it's unsustainable any other way. It's just that, in the past, execs seemed more willing to take a chance. They still had stats and financial figures at hand - SK, in Danse Macabre, mentions that in the late 70s the studios had clear audience demographics and so on (and unsurprisingly, the 'core' audience then was what it is now, people in their late teens and early twenties) - but someone, at some point, would look at a script or an idea and give it the green light. (According to several DVD extras and programmes on the subject, one of the biggest risk-takers was Alan Ladd, Jr.)
The (over-)use of CGI has to be considered, too. From Jurassic Park on it's been easy to create spectacle, and to a degree spectacle became the focus of movies rather than story, culminating - arguably - with Avatar. Maybe that's understandable: you had a generation of film-makers who suddenly had the keys to the candy store and all the toys in the toybox, so they went a bit nuts. As the next generation begins to shuffle in, CGI spectacle is a bit old hat - they've grown up with it, it's their normal - so maybe there'll be a move back to story. To an extent, the signs are there.
Against that refocus/reinvention will be the studios. They keep pumping out sequels and prequels and reboots and superhero films (or sequels of reboots of reboots of superhero films, e.g. The Amazing Spiderman 2) or rom-coms because their numbers say that's what audiences want. Of course, the counter-argument to that is, if that's all studios are making it's all people can see, so of course it appears that it's what the audience wants. Then, when someone produces an indie movie or the studios deign to invest in a 'quirky' project and they suddenly take off, we get articles along the lines of 'Success of low-budget/indie/'off-beat' movie [X] takes industry by surprise'.
As I said before, you can understand the studios wanting (or needing) to make money, and plenty of it if possible...but they used to spread it around a little more. For every 'banker' (many of which flopped) there were movies that not much was expected of. Then there were the 'flops' that proved to be anything but in the longer term - again, Blade Runner is a case in point. Not that much was really expected of Alien. Look at that now.
I think the studios have tried to turn the numbers game into a science when it really isn't, and TV has taken the risks that film used to. Video games, too. Given the choice between re-watching Prometheus or playing Alien: Isolation, I know which I prefer. (The story in A:I is stronger than that of Prometheus, and would have made a decent movie in its own right. The One That Got Away, Sir Ridley.)
 

Lord Tyrion

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Oct 24, 2013
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I have to agree. Movies just don't seem as good anymore and risks just aren't taken. The last film I can think of that seemed risky, off the top of my head, was probably The Matrix, and iirc that was a 1999 release.
For me, it probably began to change when movies went from 'a thing to entertain that hopefully also makes a sh*t-ton of cash' to 'a thing to make a sh*t-ton of cash that hopefully also entertains'. It's hard to imagine Blade Runner getting made today. Sure, there's the sequel in the pipeline, but if it wasn't a sequel...?
Obviously each film costs money and the studios want to make more back than they lay out - it's unsustainable any other way. It's just that, in the past, execs seemed more willing to take a chance. They still had stats and financial figures at hand - SK, in Danse Macabre, mentions that in the late 70s the studios had clear audience demographics and so on (and unsurprisingly, the 'core' audience then was what it is now, people in their late teens and early twenties) - but someone, at some point, would look at a script or an idea and give it the green light. (According to several DVD extras and programmes on the subject, one of the biggest risk-takers was Alan Ladd, Jr.)
The (over-)use of CGI has to be considered, too. From Jurassic Park on it's been easy to create spectacle, and to a degree spectacle became the focus of movies rather than story, culminating - arguably - with Avatar. Maybe that's understandable: you had a generation of film-makers who suddenly had the keys to the candy store and all the toys in the toybox, so they went a bit nuts. As the next generation begins to shuffle in, CGI spectacle is a bit old hat - they've grown up with it, it's their normal - so maybe there'll be a move back to story. To an extent, the signs are there.
Against that refocus/reinvention will be the studios. They keep pumping out sequels and prequels and reboots and superhero films (or sequels of reboots of reboots of superhero films, e.g. The Amazing Spiderman 2) or rom-coms because their numbers say that's what audiences want. Of course, the counter-argument to that is, if that's all studios are making it's all people can see, so of course it appears that it's what the audience wants. Then, when someone produces an indie movie or the studios deign to invest in a 'quirky' project and they suddenly take off, we get articles along the lines of 'Success of low-budget/indie/'off-beat' movie [X] takes industry by surprise'.
As I said before, you can understand the studios wanting (or needing) to make money, and plenty of it if possible...but they used to spread it around a little more. For every 'banker' (many of which flopped) there were movies that not much was expected of. Then there were the 'flops' that proved to be anything but in the longer term - again, Blade Runner is a case in point. Not that much was really expected of Alien. Look at that now.
I think the studios have tried to turn the numbers game into a science when it really isn't, and TV has taken the risks that film used to. Video games, too. Given the choice between re-watching Prometheus or playing Alien: Isolation, I know which I prefer. (The story in A:I is stronger than that of Prometheus, and would have made a decent movie in its own right. The One That Got Away, Sir Ridley.)


There are definitely films that were made in the past that would not be made today. I enjoyed thrillers like Courage Under Fire, The Fugitive, Bound, In the Line of Fire and The Hunt for Red October. Those films would either get passed over today or they would get bombarded with CGI and over the top action sequences. I remember watching the last Terminator movie with Christian Bale, and the main thing I remembered was how loud it was. Now we have a movie about Moses that does the same thing. That's a bit much.

Thankfully there are a handful of movie makers who try to steer away from the pack. I thought Captain America 2 was a right mix of action and plot development. Hopefully it becomes a trend.
 

CriticAndProud

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Aug 26, 2013
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Interstellar was another recent good movie.

I think Interstellar was a good change for the industry. It shows a movie can be successful even if it is methodically paced and isn't packed to the brim with shootouts and explosions. It also made me think, something a Hollywood movie hasn't done in a loooonnnng time.
 

Riot87

Jamaica's Finest
Mar 7, 2014
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I think Interstellar was a good change for the industry. It shows a movie can be successful even if it is methodically paced and isn't packed to the brim with shootouts and explosions. It also made me think, something a Hollywood movie hasn't done in a loooonnnng time.



IKR lol i had my husband explain some of it to me (like the ending) but i do love space movies and this one surprised me.
 

Sigmund

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Jan 3, 2010
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In your mirror.
Earlier in my life, I took up film criticism as a hobby. I read many reviews of films and enjoyed discussing the latest films with fellow fans. As the years went by, I started watching less movies and started gravitating towards TV and its golden age. I think a part of it is the blockbuster model that hasn't quite worked for me. I love a good summer blockbuster (I loved the Dark Knight), but many of them are repetitive and overblown. It also seems like there are less interesting mysteries, thrillers and dramas that we had in the 90s and 00s.

Here's a link from an Indiewire article.
7 Really Bad Things About the Film Business in 2014 | Indiewire

Thoughts?

Nice thread.

I'm sorry I can't talk intelligently on the subject.

Too many movies are remakes of yesteryear and sequels galore ensue. (Bad sequels. Bad franchises IMO.)

I read the Netflix argument. Movie theater attendance is down because of Netflix? I remember when music CD'a cost an arm and a leg then Napster came in and CD prices went down. I believe the argument was, artists and music labels were gouging the public and when Napster came in, music labels had to lower their prices. I'm not sure I got that right.

We do love indie movies and support them whenever possible.

Thanks for the thread. I'll be watching it.

Peace.

Peace.
 

Lord Tyrion

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Oct 24, 2013
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6,257
I think Interstellar was a good change for the industry. It shows a movie can be successful even if it is methodically paced and isn't packed to the brim with shootouts and explosions. It also made me think, something a Hollywood movie hasn't done in a loooonnnng time.

Established filmmakers like Christopher Nolan can make films like that and are allowed to take risks. Other directors like Tarantino are in the same boat. I just wonder if new filmmakers will be allowed to take risks.
 

Lily Sawyer

B-ReadAndWed
Jun 27, 2009
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South Carolina
Earlier in my life, I took up film criticism as a hobby. I read many reviews of films and enjoyed discussing the latest films with fellow fans. As the years went by, I started watching less movies and started gravitating towards TV and its golden age. I think a part of it is the blockbuster model that hasn't quite worked for me. I love a good summer blockbuster (I loved the Dark Knight), but many of them are repetitive and overblown. It also seems like there are less interesting mysteries, thrillers and dramas that we had in the 90s and 00s.
...Thoughts?

There aren't as many original ideas made into films as there once were.
I'm not always for a re-make, primarily because it's a rare re-make that bests the original. I dig different interpretations of stuff, but it usually doesn't work in movies.

Most of the best original stuff I watched came at the end of the millenium. 1999 was a *stellar* year for films:

American Beauty
The Sixth Sense
Being John Malkovich
Boys Don't Cry
Eyes Wide Shut
The Talented Mr. Ripley
Magnolia
The Cider House Rules
Notting Hill
Sleepy Hollow
Girl, Interrupted
Three Kings
Man on the Moon

...just to name a few.
I'm okay with new variations of Jane Austen and interesting period pieces, but I'm really tired of superhero flicks, vampire tales, teenage love-and-loss schmaltz, and virtually any re-make. It's overkill.
 

Mr Nobody

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Lord Tyrion: Some good thrillers there, and you're right: they'd all be spoilt by CG or 'must have' scenes that'd spoil the flow. Seems like everything needs to be big and dumb, these days, as studio execs constantly underestimate the audience - or maybe judge us by their own standards. ;)

Lily Sawyer: Wow. That is one impressive list! I guess too many of the people who mattered died, retired or just plain gave up.
(Guess you wouldn't want to hear about a teenage vampire superhero, on a quest for redemption for betraying his/her lost love, then? :D)
 

Kurben

The Fool on the Hill
Apr 12, 2014
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I don't know... Nowadays it seem like you often don't pay attention to the story in movies, it cut corners and is often drowned in imagery. But a movie, if not the story works well, isn't good no matter how good the specialeffect, action and CGI are. And as someone else said, far to many sequels or prequels. Including superhero movies. (and i'm not one of these that rise the dark knight movies to the skies, Ledger was brilliant but Bale was far from it). The Hobbit trilogy was way too long. Trilogy out of that book!! Over use of CGI. And another thing is dialogue that is important. How good the actor is does not matter much if the dialogue is silly and not thought through. I tend to think this is a child disease. Everytime the filmmakers got a new toy to play with they overuse it for a while. It has been so since the first talking movie. Many were interesting because they were new but few were good. Were in the overuse phase right now.
 

Shoesalesman

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Aug 12, 2010
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For me, it probably began to change when movies went from 'a thing to entertain that hopefully also makes a sh*t-ton of cash' to 'a thing to make a sh*t-ton of cash that hopefully also entertains'.

Totally agree with this statement. I'm at the stage where I'm totally CGI-ed out. Other than the new Star Wars movie coming out next year, I'm sidestepping any Marvel/Transformer-type flicks. Even horror movies these days are relying too much on CGI rather then letting a good creepy story tell itself.
 

Dana Jean

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Totally agree with this statement. I'm at the stage where I'm totally CGI-ed out. Other than the new Star Wars movie coming out next year, I'm sidestepping any Marvel/Transformer-type flicks. Even horror movies these days are relying too much on CGI rather then letting a good creepy story tell itself.
i agree!
 

Flat Matt

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Apr 16, 2014
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Totally agree with this statement. I'm at the stage where I'm totally CGI-ed out. Other than the new Star Wars movie coming out next year, I'm sidestepping any Marvel/Transformer-type flicks. Even horror movies these days are relying too much on CGI rather then letting a good creepy story tell itself.

I'm totally with you there.

Too much CGI and no storytelling these days. Or maybe I'm just getting old and losing interest in anything new? I'm the same when it comes to music.
 

50's Kid

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Aug 12, 2014
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As a screenwriter, I get very frustrated that I can not even get anybody to look at my stuff, when I see what is out there. This is not just my inflated ego, because other people (not in the industry, unfortunately) who have read my stuff have told me the same thing.
I haven't watched regular TV since the early 80's, and most movies since then are also geared down to the level of a 10 year old male (lots of big and loud explosions, with no appreciable story line). Nothing against 10 year olds. They need entertainment, too. But, when I grew up in the Stone Age, I used to watch movies (and read books) that were made for adults. I might have missed some of the deeper meanings, but they broadened my horizons and challenged me to aspire to something more. I frankly found the stuff made for kids to be boring (Mister Rogers always sounded like he was on some heavy duty medication, and, frankly, gave me the creeps), and this was before the current constant PC whining story lines, which make me want to hurl.
The current crop of TV dramas I have tried to watch all use that flipping around camera technique (I am a videographer and still don't know: what is that supposed to mean, anyway?), loud soundtracks, REALLY BAD ACTING, and REALLY BAD, SIMPLISTIC PLOTS.
As for music, I haven't heard more than 5 songs since 1992 that I would pay money for. Luckily I still have my extensive oldies collection. Today's music is over-processed, compressed, computer-generated blandness, that is inane and literally painful to listen to. I realize that has been a complaint since the early days of Jazz, then R&B, and then rock and roll, but that is the way I feel, and if you honestly go back and listen to someone like Ray Charles or Nat King Cole or Etta James or [Detroit-produced] Motown or early R&B, R&R, Rockabilly, etc., I think you would see my point. Did you ever hear Justin Beiber sing? Like, no comparison.
Thanks for letting me vent, my good friends.