Death Penalty and botched executions

[mjs9153]

I was curious if our members saw the news report of the botched execution,of the inmate from Oklahoma..I wonder how you feel about the death penalty..if it was okay..myself,I found that I was thinking of the victim of his act(s),and it closely parallels a Richard Christian Matheson(son of Richard Matheson,prolific horror sci/fi writer) story,called, 'Please Help Me'..personally, I cannot really summon up much sympathy for this guy..wondered what you all think.. of course we have SK to thank for his writing on The Green Mile,and I just wonder what the rest of you all feel about the death penalty, and whether it should be administered..

 

[fljoe0]

First off, I'm not a fan of the death penalty. I would prefer we didn't use it but I'm not going to shed any tears over these guys either.

I don't have any sympathy for the guy but these botched executions should not happen. I can't figure out why we (the US) are having such difficulty killing someone quickly. I think the whole problem is that they have to be awake and alert so other people can watch them be killed. It doesn't make sense to me but that's the way it's done.

 

[mjs9153]

I agree with the not having people watch..what does that do,for the victim's families?Does it really give them an end they can live with?Think it is almost worse,to have them witness that..maybe it would be better to just do it like in Russia,a bullet to the back of the head in a shower room,quick and without witnesses..if you have to have a death penalty.

 

[skimom2]

The best part of me says it's absolutely wrong in all cases...and then someone does some awful thing to a child and I feel like the head of the torch and pitchfork crew. I don't know the particulars in this case, but I do know that this guy's family (if he has any) has grounds to sue like crazy, making an already expensive event astronomical. What a mess.

 

[Bryan James]

Give them a straight razor and a TV that plays nothing but the Kathy Lee Gifford and Hoda Kotb show.

Maybe 'The View' once a week.

Done.

 

[mjs9153]

Never heard of the hoda kotb show, but will take your word got it..

 

[Grandpa]

I was all pro-capital punishment. Then I saw the statistics of people being released from death row due to exoneration through DNA, and I thought, "Wow. The system has let us down. No way can I take the chance of killing someone when we get it wrong so many times."

But..... then you have someone like James Holmes (for non-Coloradans, that's the guy in the Aurora theater shootings at the Batman movie), and I just see him as inhumane evil. Even if he's nuts. He's caused so much trauma and tragedy and loss of human life. Erase him.

In this case, I hear the botched execution, and I think, "That's horrible. You can't allow that." Then I see what he actually did that got him there, and I think, "He still had it a lot better than that poor girl. Fix the system, yes, please. But I'm not going to lose sleep over him."

It's a little complicated.

 

[mjs9153]

I was all pro-capital punishment. Then I saw the statistics of people being released from death row due to exoneration through DNA, and I thought, "Wow. The system has let us down. No way can I take the chance of killing someone when we get it wrong so many times."

But..... then you have someone like James Holmes (for non-Coloradans, that's the guy in the Aurora theater shootings at the Batman movie), and I just see him as inhumane evil. Even if he's nuts. He's caused so much trauma and tragedy and loss of human life. Erase him.

In this case, I hear the botched execution, and I think, "That's horrible. You can't allow that." Then I see what he actually did that got him there, and I think, "He still had it a lot better than that poor girl. Fix the system, yes, please. But I'm not going to lose sleep over him."

It's a little complicated.

It sure is.. When you see victims and their families and their real grief,hell they go through, is hard to argue against.. But still, there is just something that feels wrong to end another human being's life.. I don't mean in battle or other life-threatening situations but just as a conscious decision to someone that is basically helpless at that point..

 

[Autumn Gust]

I don't believe in the death penalty. Why? a) Killing a convicted killer puts you on the same moral plane. b) Statistics clearly show capital punishment does not serve as a deterrent for crime. c) It doesn't save the state money to execute someone. In fact, it costs many millions more to put someone to death than to let them grow old and die in prison. d) It will not bring the victim back. Lock 'em up and throw away the key, I say.

 

[GNTLGNT]

...Capital punishment doesn't work as a deterrent because it takes so freakin' long to deliver the "death blow"...for god's sake, there are people on Death Row that will die natural deaths before they're executed because of our screwed up judicial system...I may well horrify some-but I wish the guy had suffered longer, considering his crime-he died easy...and how in the hell we ever got into this drug induced death business is beyond me...rope and bullets worked for years, are a hell of a lot cheaper and pretty damn reliable...and AG?..I don't know where you're getting your supposition that it costs more to execute than house a condemned inmate....and I agree, it won't bring the victim(s)back, but the killer(s) don't deserve to live off the taxpayer while the families are bereft of their loved ones...work around this population and you'll see what I mean...it's easy to say "Oh the poor man" until God forbid-someone is brutally attacked or murdered...then the tune in the dance hall changes quick...I don't mean to offend anyone, but as far as I'm concerned...kill em all and let the devil have a party...

 

[fljoe0]

I don't believe in the death penalty. Why? a) Killing a convicted killer puts you on the same moral plane. b) Statistics clearly show capital punishment does not serve as a deterrent for crime. c) It doesn't save the state money to execute someone. In fact, it costs many millions more to put someone to death than to let them grow old and die in prison. d) It will not bring the victim back. Lock 'em up and throw away the key, I say.

Another reason I don't like it is because I think, in some cases, it can sway a jury not to convict. Because there is such a split over this issue in our society, it is going to be a factor in a verdict whether people will admit it or not.

 

[Grandpa]

...Capital punishment doesn't work as a deterrent because it takes so freakin' long to deliver the "death blow"...for god's sake, there are people on Death Row that will die natural deaths before they're executed because of our screwed up judicial system...I may well horrify some-but I wish the guy had suffered longer, considering his crime-he died easy...and how in the hell we ever got into this drug induced death business is beyond me...rope and bullets worked for years, are a hell of a lot cheaper and pretty damn reliable...and AG?..I don't know where you're getting your supposition that it costs more to execute than house a condemned inmate....and I agree, it won't bring the victim(s)back, but the killer(s) don't deserve to live off the taxpayer while the families are bereft of their loved ones...work around this population and you'll see what I mean...it's easy to say "Oh the poor man" until God forbid-someone is brutally attacked or murdered...then the tune in the dance hall changes quick...I don't mean to offend anyone, but as far as I'm concerned...kill em all and let the devil have a party...

I've seen the studies. The reason it costs more to execute a person rather than keep them alive is that once a death penalty case is filed, the defense costs go up geometrically. A lot more effort is put into fighting a death penalty case, by a factor of 10, if I remember right. Once there's a conviction, the appellate costs ramp up astronomically - by a factor of 40 or 50, again, if I remember right.

Sure, one solution is to limit their appeals and kill them quickly, but the number of DNA exonerations, to me, weigh in against that. I squirm uncomfortably every time I hear of someone being released from prison after 10 or 20 years because, "Oops. Bad conviction. Sorry." I just can't imagine. And to send someone to their death, with their last thoughts knowing that it's wrong and all the attendant issues with that? I know that mistakes are inevitable, but it's gut-wrenching.

On the other hand, my dad would argue that while capital punishment isn't a deterrent in society, it sure is a deterrent to the murderer who gets executed.

 

[Autumn Gust]

...Capital punishment doesn't work as a deterrent because it takes so freakin' long to deliver the "death blow"...for god's sake, there are people on Death Row that will die natural deaths before they're executed because of our screwed up judicial system...I may well horrify some-but I wish the guy had suffered longer, considering his crime-he died easy...and how in the hell we ever got into this drug induced death business is beyond me...rope and bullets worked for years, are a hell of a lot cheaper and pretty damn reliable...and AG?..I don't know where you're getting your supposition that it costs more to execute than house a condemned inmate....and I agree, it won't bring the victim(s)back, but the killer(s) don't deserve to live off the taxpayer while the families are bereft of their loved ones...work around this population and you'll see what I mean...it's easy to say "Oh the poor man" until God forbid-someone is brutally attacked or murdered...then the tune in the dance hall changes quick...I don't mean to offend anyone, but as far as I'm concerned...kill em all and let the devil have a party...

Well, it's certainly true here in California that it's more expensive to execute someone, as the state's correction system and many others agree. For example, here's a quote from an L.A. Times article in 2011: "the state's 714 death row prisoners cost $184 million more per year than those sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole." The reason is the cost of what has been deemed to be constitutionally guaranteed appeals and legal help. Without those, I'm sure it would cost less to execute someone; however, that's not the world we live in.

Here is the url if you want to look at the article: Death penalty: Exhaustive study finds death penalty costs California $184 million a year - Los Angeles Times.

 

[GNTLGNT]

...and again that goes right back to my whole point of it takes too long to carry out the sentence...and DNA?, I agree it's horrible when mistakes are made, but technology is much improved...these older cases are before such technology or in it's infancy...

 

[Moderator]

...and again that goes right back to my whole point of it takes too long to carry out the sentence...and DNA?, I agree it's horrible when mistakes are made, but technology is much improved...these older cases are before such technology or in it's infancy...

But if the innocent people are still on death row, there's a chance they could be executed under the current convictions. Not to mention that even with DNA there could be a false conviction if somehow there was cross-contamination by someone completely innocent. The Good Wife had a show recently that had that premise. I don't know how realistic it was but made me think about the possibility that someone innocent could still be convicted with DNA evidence and that hadn't occurred to me before.

 

[Grandpa]

The problem that I have is not that DNA wasn't around back then, but DNA has shown how much we can have wrongful convictions. There are plenty of other cases, of eyewitness accounts that turn out to be wrong, of victim identification that turns out to be wrong or even malicious, of informants testifying falsely to protect themselves, and any other number of circumstances where someone could get convicted wrongly and DNA never enter into it.

For me, if we're going to have the death penalty, I would favor a two-tiered burden of proof. Conviction is beyond a reasonable doubt. That's a good standard. But if they're convicted and then go to the death penalty phase, the jury has to be convinced beyond any doubt. Because if they have any doubt whatsoever, then let's not kill them. Life imprisonment is just fine, just in case something comes up later that gives us second thoughts, and we have an opportunity to take another look.

 

[no bounce no play]

DNA testing has exonerated 49 defendants in Texas, according to the Innocence Project of Texas, many of whom were on death row.

I don't think much of some eye-witness's testimony. My hubby can't even remember what our waitress looks like, after she's taken our order and brought us drinks. I sometimes have problems in Chinese restaurants identifying our waitress so in some instances, I would be a terrible eyewitness

 

[DiO'Bolic]

So all the hubbab is because justice took and extra few minutes for this scum?

 

[Grandpa]

So all the hubbab is because justice took and extra few minutes for this scum?

No, his relatively minimal suffering compared to his victim's doesn't much move me. However, it does open the door to a larger conversation.

 

[DiO'Bolic]

However, it does open the door to a larger conversation.

To that I agree... Sort of like the BLM/Bundy thing, eh?