I think many have read it. When it comes to threads and how they develop it is often in unforeseen directions (thats my experience anyway). I write myself but all of it is in swedish so i think it wouldn't make much sense to post it here.
Getting the Words Right
- Thread starter Donald Miller
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I think you're onto something there: the aspiring writers haven't read it. At least none of the ones I've come across on the net have, or if they did read it, they've forgotten it.I think you might find a great number of us have read On Writing. (I've read it a couple of times, love it.) But perhaps not all are aspiring to be writers?
I've come across one good writer. She happens to be someone who also considers herself a student.
I've had to delete your article sorry Donald as we don't allow this on the MB. If you'd like to post a link to it (offsite) please feel free to do so in the Self Promotion area.
How about you? Are you a writerI think you might find a great number of us have read On Writing. (I've read it a couple of times, love it.) But perhaps not all are aspiring to be writers?
I'm not sure I'm smart enough to be on this site. I was told that I can't place links in a conversation, so I placed the whole thing. Should I have just put the basic idea of what I wanted to express?I've had to delete your article sorry Donald as we don't allow this on the MB. If you'd like to post a link to it (offsite) please feel free to do so in the Self Promotion area.
I'm trying to have a deeper conversation than one that fits in a sentence or two. I was hoping to have a conversation about writing, which entails the issues that were illustrated by Sue Grafton.
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I've been told that the "Hello Fellow Writing Hobbyists" is the only Self promotion I'm allowed, but that thread is deader than a doornail. Also, I've always been primarily interested in talking about King's book, "On Writing."I've had to delete your article sorry Donald as we don't allow this on the MB. If you'd like to post a link to it (offsite) please feel free to do so in the Self Promotion area.
Can I post Self Promotion or conversation or whatever about writing? I've just assumed that he wrote the book because he wanted to encourage people to write-- the old-fashioned way, by working at learning "the craft." What Sue Grafton said is spot on for what I've seen. Nearly everyone I've met online wants to write, one person I met here wants to learn how to write. I can't learn a thing from the nature born geniuses who crank out what seems to me to be incoherent drivel.
I'm not that their level of brilliance, evidently. That's why I have to rely upon the "learning the craft" approach.
Donald, the issue we seem to be having is that rather than just discussing the topics, you every now and again will post excerpts of your own writing. (Including the "article" that I removed a short time ago.)
I'm sorry if the board rules have seemed confusing for you, I'll just try to give you a quick run down again.
For legal reasons (as Stephen has in the past had trouble with people pleading plagiarism) we do not allow folks to post any of their own writing at all on the site. (Except for once a year in the form of the SKMB Halloween Story, which has its own set of rules.)
This means fiction, it also means articles, blog posts etc. We have provided the Self Promotion area so that people may link to their work only.
You absolutely can discuss all manner of things, but you just have to remember that this is not a writing group, the MB was never intended to be a place where we share our work, or have folks give input on our writing abilities.
Re: your question, no, I am not a writer. (I'm sorry I haven't returned your P.M as yet, will try to get to it a bit later.)
I'm sorry if the board rules have seemed confusing for you, I'll just try to give you a quick run down again.
For legal reasons (as Stephen has in the past had trouble with people pleading plagiarism) we do not allow folks to post any of their own writing at all on the site. (Except for once a year in the form of the SKMB Halloween Story, which has its own set of rules.)
This means fiction, it also means articles, blog posts etc. We have provided the Self Promotion area so that people may link to their work only.
You absolutely can discuss all manner of things, but you just have to remember that this is not a writing group, the MB was never intended to be a place where we share our work, or have folks give input on our writing abilities.
Re: your question, no, I am not a writer. (I'm sorry I haven't returned your P.M as yet, will try to get to it a bit later.)
My point exactly, the long sentence followed by a short one. Do you know what was left in my mind after reading about Nick? He came to the river. That's it. I don't think the first sentence is particularly interesting. But the combination of long & short sentence makes for a nice flow.
Personally, as a reader and writer, what I'm interested in first of all is the flow of the story. If by the end of that really long sentence I have to try and remember what Jack or Bill were doing near the river/mountain/whatever, the story loses its appeal.
Quoting other writers is fine. Using other writers as models is also fine. I know, because Stephen King is the reason I started writing stories. And quit. And started again. But I know that at the end of the day I won't be able to sound like him, no matter how hard I try. I will sound like me - inexperienced, fumbling for words. And maybe in a few years I will sound like someone worth reading.
Okay that does clear things up. Now I now much better where I stand. Yeah, that legal stuff can be a pain for honest folk. Right about now, I would take it as a compliment that someone -- I mean someone good -- thought enough of it to "borough" it. But, alas no such luck.
But in all seriousness, thanks for clearing that up. It's a real drag that the crooks have to take so much fun out of so many things.
Keep that halo shiny.
That's exactly the way I feel about it. Exactly!!! If you're looking for some serious study partners, Becki and I are available. Your advice on that last paragraph section was write on the money. I'm getting some sleep, and when I wake up, I'm going to fix that part, because you are right. Wherever it be, I hope we can share ideas. That would be most excellent!!
It was Mr. King's "homework assignment" (long expired, as it turned out) in On Writing that led me to this very forum.
I don't know that I'm a writer, but I like to write (much in the same way that I don't know that I'd call myself a photographer, but I like to take pictures). I haven't posted a link to my blog in Self-Promotion because it seems so..... well, self-promotional. It's like going to a party at someone's house and trying to drum up business. Just doesn't seem courteous.
I have written some true-life things here and liked them enough that I've reposted them, in edited form, in my blog. I just had a thought - I genuinely hope there wasn't anything wrong with that.
No, I think you're fine there, it seems that it is okay if you're just passing on a true-life event. It's when it becomes about the writing, rather than what's being said, that we run into problems.
(People have to realise (and I'm not at all talking to anyone in particular) that writing things down here won't get Stephen suddenly popping in to 'discover a new talent', this isn't the purpose of the MB.)
WHAT!!!!!!! I thought he read my part of the halloween story every year.
Okay, that's a relief.
I rather assumed that Mr. King spent enough time and energies wrestling with his talent at his own level than to worry about who else might come on the scene. "Hey, there's an F-22 pilot. I'm going to take my Skyhawk up and impress him!" Yeah, no.
I've read On Writing half a dozen times, cover to cover - including the whole thing in one sitting, the first time around.
I've been published.
Writing (and editing, to a greater or lesser extent, depending on circumstance and what's in the wind) is literally my bread and butter. And bread and butter's still pretty much all I can afford. Sometimes the butter not so much, actually...but bread's no problem and I did earn enough to pay an electricity bill once. That was a good day (not least 'cause it kept the lights on and the 'puter going).
I know for a certain fact that there are plenty of writers on here, some at a 'higher' level than others. I also know that a hell of a lot of them have read On Writing, and have read widely besides.
I don't consider myself a student of writing. I'm a writer. Studying writing might make you something - a literary critic, maybe - but not a writer. Reading for style is good, but ultimately your style is your own, and is generally something you more or less trip over. Someone once described my style as "Stephen King meets Roald Dahl". I can't hold a candle to either of those gentlemen, but I was nevertheless pleased by the comparison (it's very possible that I was being buttered up for some reason, but I'll take the flattery and run). Whatever your style is, you find it by writing your own ideas down in your own words. You may not recognize it for what it is, and it may (should, in fact) reflect something of your influences, but it'll be there, running through your work like a (hopefully rich) seam of coal in dirt.
While I don't consider myself a student, I'm always striving to improve. Perfection is, by nature, impossible to attain, but there's no harm in shooting for the moon.
I've been published.
Writing (and editing, to a greater or lesser extent, depending on circumstance and what's in the wind) is literally my bread and butter. And bread and butter's still pretty much all I can afford. Sometimes the butter not so much, actually...but bread's no problem and I did earn enough to pay an electricity bill once. That was a good day (not least 'cause it kept the lights on and the 'puter going).
I know for a certain fact that there are plenty of writers on here, some at a 'higher' level than others. I also know that a hell of a lot of them have read On Writing, and have read widely besides.
I don't consider myself a student of writing. I'm a writer. Studying writing might make you something - a literary critic, maybe - but not a writer. Reading for style is good, but ultimately your style is your own, and is generally something you more or less trip over. Someone once described my style as "Stephen King meets Roald Dahl". I can't hold a candle to either of those gentlemen, but I was nevertheless pleased by the comparison (it's very possible that I was being buttered up for some reason, but I'll take the flattery and run). Whatever your style is, you find it by writing your own ideas down in your own words. You may not recognize it for what it is, and it may (should, in fact) reflect something of your influences, but it'll be there, running through your work like a (hopefully rich) seam of coal in dirt.
While I don't consider myself a student, I'm always striving to improve. Perfection is, by nature, impossible to attain, but there's no harm in shooting for the moon.
"Stephen suddenly popping in to 'discover a new talent', this isn't the purpose of the MB."
The comment I made that was not posted consisted of quotes comprising 80% of the message that were made by Sue Grafton. The very small portion that wasn't was my observation that she paid her dues, she became a writer "The Quick and Easy Way" -- (My title, borrowed from thousands of other people who've used it.) --, that Grafton spent twenty-five years learning to become a writer.
The point of the conversation was intended to be that people should study and know how to write sentences and paragraphs. How would that make me some "waiting to be discovered?" THOSE are the people who drive me up the wall, because of (well, what Grafton said).
Where in any of what I said did I claim to try to understand the universe?
"Just doesn't seem courteous."
People have been misrepresenting what I've said since I began coming here, and I don't like that. I made a site where writing students could work together. I spent a great deal of time setting it up where it was a self contained site, where everything a student writer needed was there-- for free. I don't even have ads on it.
I was told that I HAD to place any mention of it on Self Promotion, and when I placed anything related to the site, it was immediately redirected to Self Promotion. (You don't know me, so don't insinuate that I am unethical.)
I can understand, now, why so many writers are alcoholics.
In any event, I spent three days inviting scores of people to take advantage of it. Of the hundred+ I invited, sixteen signed up for it. One person I met here is active.
So, in disgust, I changed the name from Creative Writing Study Group, to Donald Miller's Journal. If I keep getting insulted, I'm going to make the thing private.
People have deleted my posts, redirected my posts (and then misrepresented what was in the deleted post), and two moderates have clicked the "like" button when someone makes an insulting comment to me. I DON'T LIKE IT. Nor do I deserve it.
But we are on a thread where people don't have anything good to say about Hemingway, preferring to bash him instead.
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