Random Thoughts

[ghost19]

Your daughter sounds a lot like mine. I bet she'd could have got her own answers if she was able to text them (like mine would have)........

My son's phone history....in the last two weeks it's something like 3 phone calls and around 650 texts....lol

Off topic but this post reminded me of something. I look thru my son's phone occasionally just in case. He and all of his friends have Instagram accounts and I want to try and at least make an effort at keeping him honest. It's like looking into another universe. 12 year old girls and boys professing their undying love for one another. Girls posting things about killing other girls if they don't stop looking at their boyfriend. Is 12 the new 21 or something? I ask him about what goes on in his school and if Instagram is an accurate representation of how kids in his school act? He says it is. He told me he knows of at least 3 or 4 girls who have gotten into fights with weapons like nail files, one brought a knife apparently just for the purpose of getting to another girl who has been talking to her boyfriend. He said there are twice as many girls in ISS(In School Suspension) as there are guys. He said there was one girl who was taken out of school for cutting on herself during class. Apparently she just decided to pull out a knife and start cutting on herself. I listen to his "normal" day at school and I marvel at how he seems to be detached from most of it but it just seems like business as usual to him. I've asked him about what his teachers do or the principal and he immediately says the teachers are afraid to do anything to the kids and the kids know this. He shows me pics on Instagram that are taken and posted during the school day even though his school has a "no cell phones in class" policy. If it were one or two pics it would be more in line with that policy, but he said the teachers really won't do anything because most of the teachers have THEIR phones sitting right beside them on their desk also! He was showing me the other day there were something like 35-40 pics per day posted by people he is friends with on Instagram during the school day. Some of the pics were right from the classroom. It's a bit concerning thinking this has become the norm. Cell phones are useful but they can be so distracting, I would imagine ever more so in a learning environment. My son said it's become commonplace to hear text tones or phones just outright ringing right in the middle of class. The teacher will sometimes say something but most of the time they don't bother, they just wait for the phone to stop ringing...lol I don't get it. Back when I was in middle school, junior high, and even into high school there were teachers I was just outright afraid of because they would not put up with distractions in their classes. It kept everyone honest and anyone who didn't want to comply was made an example of. I've told my son this and he says it's not anything like that nowadays in his middle school The kids run the place and the teachers just try to get thru the class without enraging a student. Times change I suppose...but that "old man mentality" that used to seem so foggy and far into the future is much clearer now..lol

 

[Dana Jean]

Girls are vicious.

And they can grow up to be ugly women. Even educated ones get a whiff of testosterone and they will throw every other female under the nearest bus.

 

[ghost19]

Girls are vicious.

And they can grow up to be ugly women. Even educated ones get a whiff of testosterone and they will throw every other female under the nearest bus.

This is the part that confused me...more than I usually am that is. I can't think of one fight while I was in school...all thru the 80's, where two girls got into an open, physical fight. We had plenty of fights between guys....a couple involving myself, but I don't know...it just didn't seem as prevalent back then. Now, it seems the fighting roles have flipped. My son he very rarely ever sees a physical fight between guys but fights between girls have become much more commonplace. The school resource officer at his school is an officer I use to work with so we still keep in touch. He has pretty much confirmed everything my son says. He told me ISS is comprised of mostly girls now and most of the offenses are fighting, stealing, threatening teachers, etc....just seems weird. I know of a couple of teachers back when I was in school that if you openly threatened them, ending up in the Principal's office would have been the best possible outcome you could have hoped for.

 

[Spideyman]

My son's phone history....in the last two weeks it's something like 3 phone calls and around 650 texts....lol

Off topic but this post reminded me of something. I look thru my son's phone occasionally just in case. He and all of his friends have Instagram accounts and I want to try and at least make an effort at keeping him honest. It's like looking into another universe. 12 year old girls and boys professing their undying love for one another. Girls posting things about killing other girls if they don't stop looking at their boyfriend. Is 12 the new 21 or something? I ask him about what goes on in his school and if Instagram is an accurate representation of how kids in his school act? He says it is. He told me he knows of at least 3 or 4 girls who have gotten into fights with weapons like nail files, one brought a knife apparently just for the purpose of getting to another girl who has been talking to her boyfriend. He said there are twice as many girls in ISS(In School Suspension) as there are guys. He said there was one girl who was taken out of school for cutting on herself during class. Apparently she just decided to pull out a knife and start cutting on herself. I listen to his "normal" day at school and I marvel at how he seems to be detached from most of it but it just seems like business as usual to him. I've asked him about what his teachers do or the principal and he immediately says the teachers are afraid to do anything to the kids and the kids know this. He shows me pics on Instagram that are taken and posted during the school day even though his school has a "no cell phones in class" policy. If it were one or two pics it would be more in line with that policy, but he said the teachers really won't do anything because most of the teachers have THEIR phones sitting right beside them on their desk also! He was showing me the other day there were something like 35-40 pics per day posted by people he is friends with on Instagram during the school day. Some of the pics were right from the classroom. It's a bit concerning thinking this has become the norm. Cell phones are useful but they can be so distracting, I would imagine ever more so in a learning environment. My son said it's become commonplace to hear text tones or phones just outright ringing right in the middle of class. The teacher will sometimes say something but most of the time they don't bother, they just wait for the phone to stop ringing...lol I don't get it. Back when I was in middle school, junior high, and even into high school there were teachers I was just outright afraid of because they would not put up with distractions in their classes. It kept everyone honest and anyone who didn't want to comply was made an example of. I've told my son this and he says it's not anything like that nowadays in his middle school The kids run the place and the teachers just try to get thru the class without enraging a student. Times change I suppose...but that "old man mentality" that used to seem so foggy and far into the future is much clearer now..lol

And your post proves that "the world has moved on". Try any of that back in my day and not only would you fear the teachers but the retribution of your parents.

 

[ghost19]

And your post proves that "the world has moved on". Try any of that back in my day and not only would you fear the teachers but the retribution of your parents.

Exactly right. It was always understood that if something happened at school, school discipline would be the least of my concerns once I got home..lol My dad made that abundantly clear usually the first day of every school year. I had no reason to doubt his sincerity. The rare times I got involved in a fight or some other mischief at school, I never even considered not telling my parents because forbid they found out about it a week later with a note sent home or they ran into one of my teachers at the grocery store and found out about it from some other source than me. The world has definitely moved on.

The SKMB is my equivalent of a bunch of old friends sitting around a weathered general store on some other level of the Tower, talking about how strange life has become..lol

 

[Dana Jean]

Exactly right. It was always understood that if something happened at school, school discipline would be the least of my concerns once I got home..lol My dad made that abundantly clear usually the first day of every school year. I had no reason to doubt his sincerity. The rare times I got involved in a fight or some other mischief at school, I never even considered not telling my parents because forbid they found out about it a week later with a note sent home or they ran into one of my teachers at the grocery store and found out about it from some other source than me. The world has definitely moved on.

The SKMB is my equivalent of a bunch of old friends sitting around a weathered general store on some other level of the Tower, talking about how strange life has become..lol

If me or one of my siblings got into trouble at school (and back then, it was for stuff that is considered nothing nowadays --habitually forgetting our pencils, talking too much in class -- stuff like that) my parents almost always sided with the teacher. They would look at us to be better people. Nowadays, parents are looking to place the blame elsewhere, usually on the teacher, or other kids, never on their precious little babies.

 

[ghost19]

If me or one of my siblings got into trouble at school (and back then, it was for stuff that is considered nothing nowadays --habitually forgetting our pencils, talking too much in class -- stuff like that) my parents almost always sided with the teacher. They would look at us to be better people. Nowadays, parents are looking to place the blame elsewhere, usually on the teacher, or other kids, never on their precious little babies.

Pretty much. From what my son has told me that is exactly how it is. The teachers are too afraid of a lawsuit or being blamed for emotionally damaging someone's child nowadays. My son told me his favorite teacher resigned after last year. Word around the school was he resigned due to the fact he was getting too many complaints from parents about calling their kids out on bad behavior and kicking them out of his class. He'd been teaching forever apparently and decided to go teach English over in Russia....weird..

 

[Out of Order]

My son's phone history....in the last two weeks it's something like 3 phone calls and around 650 texts....lol

Off topic but this post reminded me of something. I look thru my son's phone occasionally just in case. He and all of his friends have Instagram accounts and I want to try and at least make an effort at keeping him honest. It's like looking into another universe. 12 year old girls and boys professing their undying love for one another. Girls posting things about killing other girls if they don't stop looking at their boyfriend. Is 12 the new 21 or something? I ask him about what goes on in his school and if Instagram is an accurate representation of how kids in his school act? He says it is. He told me he knows of at least 3 or 4 girls who have gotten into fights with weapons like nail files, one brought a knife apparently just for the purpose of getting to another girl who has been talking to her boyfriend. He said there are twice as many girls in ISS(In School Suspension) as there are guys. He said there was one girl who was taken out of school for cutting on herself during class. Apparently she just decided to pull out a knife and start cutting on herself. I listen to his "normal" day at school and I marvel at how he seems to be detached from most of it but it just seems like business as usual to him. I've asked him about what his teachers do or the principal and he immediately says the teachers are afraid to do anything to the kids and the kids know this. He shows me pics on Instagram that are taken and posted during the school day even though his school has a "no cell phones in class" policy. If it were one or two pics it would be more in line with that policy, but he said the teachers really won't do anything because most of the teachers have THEIR phones sitting right beside them on their desk also! He was showing me the other day there were something like 35-40 pics per day posted by people he is friends with on Instagram during the school day. Some of the pics were right from the classroom. It's a bit concerning thinking this has become the norm. Cell phones are useful but they can be so distracting, I would imagine ever more so in a learning environment. My son said it's become commonplace to hear text tones or phones just outright ringing right in the middle of class. The teacher will sometimes say something but most of the time they don't bother, they just wait for the phone to stop ringing...lol I don't get it. Back when I was in middle school, junior high, and even into high school there were teachers I was just outright afraid of because they would not put up with distractions in their classes. It kept everyone honest and anyone who didn't want to comply was made an example of. I've told my son this and he says it's not anything like that nowadays in his middle school The kids run the place and the teachers just try to get thru the class without enraging a student. Times change I suppose...but that "old man mentality" that used to seem so foggy and far into the future is much clearer now..lol

ghost, I think you have painted a very admirable picture of what is going in a lot of schools now. My daughter is in her third year of teaching fifth graders and my wife teaches special ed. in grade school and has been for over thirty years now. They are old school (sorry for that wording lol) when it comes to the use of cells. That is the biggest offense incurred by these youngsters, using the cell phone without permission.

 

[80sFan]

It absolutely AMAZES me how much things have changed in just one generation.
I went to an all-girls school and sure there was drama and arguments, but rarely ever physical fights.
I've never been punched or thrown a punch in my life. Fighting was for "trashy girls".
My daughter is out of HS a while now, but she said the same thing that ghost19's son said...it is primarily girls who are getting in fights, getting suspended, (also using drugs and dropping out of school).
It's sad.

And I wholeheartedly agree that whatever "punishment" the school dished out was nowhere near what waited when the parents found out.
Nowadays (<--- I just crossed the line to "old" with that one word) school staff and many parents are hesitant to discipline (I'm talking any discipline, not necessarily physical) kids because God forbid they have to have actual consequences for their own bad choices.

 

[Neesy]

everything can be dated before and after mcdonalds. there's a study i read. stumbled across it while i was updating my secret yeti evidence file while taking a break in the lounge at the howard johnson's just off i-75

Okay - now it seems if you were born between 1981 and 2001 then you are a Gen X'er (according to a show I saw today) - it was all about "latch-key kids", rising divorce rates, Curt Cobain and Nirvana, etc.

They even through in some commercials with Frankenberry and Count Chocola as well as the one about his bologna having a first name, etc.

Spoiler: this looks just like my cat

 

[Neesy]

Maybe this will help, Neesy......

Thanks!

Are you going to watch the Great Pumpkin tonight?

That was a cute video

 

[Neesy]

Okay - now it seems if you were born between 1981 and 2001 then you are a Gen X'er (according to a show I saw today) - it was all about "latch-key kids", rising divorce rates, Curt Cobain and Nirvana, etc.

They even through in some commercials with Frankenberry and Count Chocola as well as the one about his bologna having a first name, etc.

Spoiler: this looks just like my cat

Yikes! edit "threw" not "through"

There are quite a few shows about these "Gen X'ers" but nothing about millenialls

Tonight is Survivor - get to see who gets voted off of the remaining wannabes

 

[ghost19]

If me or one of my siblings got into trouble at school (and back then, it was for stuff that is considered nothing nowadays --habitually forgetting our pencils, talking too much in class -- stuff like that) my parents almost always sided with the teacher. They would look at us to be better people. Nowadays, parents are looking to place the blame elsewhere, usually on the teacher, or other kids, never on their precious little babies.

That's exactly it. I wonder where the balance shift began and why?

 

[GNTLGNT]

...the lack of ability to punish kids is what made my mom throw up her hands and retire from teaching after 20+ years....and this my friends is over 25 years ago....

 

[shaitan]

About two and a half years ago I had to fly to Chicago out of Newark airport. It's a short 20 minute ride from where I live, yet I had a very interesting conversation with the car service driver on the way there. The guy served 3 tours in Viet Nam as a sniper. He used to be a math teacher in a Newark high school. He said, he was shot at a few times while working as a teacher, and he was less scared in the jungles of Viet Nam, because there you could shoot back. Yeah, next to Camden, Newark is the second murder capital USA, but seriously though, that's not normal, or is it?!

 

[Spideyman]

That's exactly it. I wonder where the balance shift began and why?

As a teacher, I began to notice a shift by 1989--- the powers that be decided to empower children. Make it a win win situation. (something total unrealistic in a real world-- students learn by mistakes and failures) Adults, parents, teachers were told to step back- allow- "enable" the children. The result, that I observed, was less authority and the children became spoiled. There was less discipline within the classrooms, teachers fell under new rules. Students needed their space.
Society changed-- the world moved on-- it became unpopular to discipline your own child (and I do not mean by physical means). The guiding parent who once prepared their child for life, now was told to become their pal, buddy, friend. Yes, you can be both. However there has to be set rules-- cause and effect. Respect, responsibility, growth of self worth.

In my last years of teaching I have seen teachers be dismissed on the simple fact of requesting a student to came back into a room. The student saw it as an invasion of their space. Teachers were discouraged from showing any form of touching- even a handshake. During my school years I can recall teachers giving you a hug, praise and encouragement. Teachers are afraid to do any of that now. Teachers are just plain afraid to do anything other than attempt to teach to a classroom.

Parents -- not all, there are many who still guide their children and those children become wonderful adults-- made a disconnect. Economy played a role. Necessity for both parents to work. Less time with children, since they worked all day and many times brought their work home. It was easier to turn their eye and place blame on the teachers who had their hands tied.

Children of the spoiled generation are used to having their demands met by their parents and others in authority.

In no way am I saying every parent fits into this scenario. There are many, many caring,involved and guiding parents. This is simply what I have observed.

 

[ghost19]

As a teacher, I began to notice a shift by 1989--- the powers that be decided to empower children. Make it a win win situation. (something total unrealistic in a real world-- students learn by mistakes and failures) Adults, parents, teachers were told to step back- allow- "enable" the children. The result, that I observed, was less authority and the children became spoiled. There was less discipline within the classrooms, teachers fell under new rules. Students needed their space.
Society changed-- the world moved on-- it became unpopular to discipline your own child (and I do not mean by physical means). The guiding parent who once prepared their child for life, now was told to become their pal, buddy, friend. Yes, you can be both. However there has to be set rules-- cause and effect. Respect, responsibility, growth of self worth.

In my last years of teaching I have seen teachers be dismissed on the simple fact of requesting a student to came back into a room. The student saw it as an invasion of their space. Teachers were discouraged from showing any form of touching- even a handshake. During my school years I can recall teachers giving you a hug, praise and encouragement. Teachers are afraid to do any of that now. Teachers are just plain afraid to do anything other than attempt to teach to a classroom.

Parents -- not all, there are many who still guide their children and those children become wonderful adults-- made a disconnect. Economy played a role. Necessity for both parents to work. Less time with children, since they worked all day and many times brought their work home. It was easier to turn their eye and place blame on the teachers who had their hands tied.

Children of the spoiled generation are used to having their demands met by their parents and others in authority.

In no way am I saying every parent fits into this scenario. There are many, many caring,involved and guiding parents. This is simply what I have observed.

That's an excellent analysis. I can definitely see where less time with the child at home would lead to somewhat of a gap. I guess less families are what you would call "9-5" kind of families nowadays so the family dynamic changes as you change the variables at home. Very interesting points, thanks for the info.

 

[skimom2]

As a teacher, I began to notice a shift by 1989--- the powers that be decided to empower children. Make it a win win situation. (something total unrealistic in a real world-- students learn by mistakes and failures) Adults, parents, teachers were told to step back- allow- "enable" the children. The result, that I observed, was less authority and the children became spoiled. There was less discipline within the classrooms, teachers fell under new rules. Students needed their space.
Society changed-- the world moved on-- it became unpopular to discipline your own child (and I do not mean by physical means). The guiding parent who once prepared their child for life, now was told to become their pal, buddy, friend. Yes, you can be both. However there has to be set rules-- cause and effect. Respect, responsibility, growth of self worth.

In my last years of teaching I have seen teachers be dismissed on the simple fact of requesting a student to came back into a room. The student saw it as an invasion of their space. Teachers were discouraged from showing any form of touching- even a handshake. During my school years I can recall teachers giving you a hug, praise and encouragement. Teachers are afraid to do any of that now. Teachers are just plain afraid to do anything other than attempt to teach to a classroom.

Parents -- not all, there are many who still guide their children and those children become wonderful adults-- made a disconnect. Economy played a role. Necessity for both parents to work. Less time with children, since they worked all day and many times brought their work home. It was easier to turn their eye and place blame on the teachers who had their hands tied.

Children of the spoiled generation are used to having their demands met by their parents and others in authority.

In no way am I saying every parent fits into this scenario. There are many, many caring,involved and guiding parents. This is simply what I have observed.

Good analysis. This short time that I've been working again in a school has been a real eye-opener. Kids as young as first grade are saying and doing things that I NEVER saw in school, and wouldn't dream of doing (Yes, another, "If you get in trouble in school, God help you when you get home" kid), even in high school. I'm very fortunate in my position because my immediate boss started out as a behavior specialist (she put herself through school for her master's degree in special ed doing this), so she puts up with zero crap from the kids and doesn't expect us to either. Nothing abusive, of course, but we are allowed to be as strict as necessary for each kid (all the kids that I work with regularly have learning or behavior issues, and each responds to different ways of handling them) to get their work done as much as they are able. I substituted at my son's 'hippie school' once, and I won't do it again--no discipline whatsoever allowed. Like Spidey, when I say 'discipline' I don't mean physical or mental abuse--I mean making a disciple, teaching correct behaviors. I'm left thinking that we have a couple of generations in general that can't (or won't) disciple their kids and don't want anyone else to do it either because they have no knowledge themselves.

 

[80sFan]

And it's turned young people (again, not all young people) into an entitled, offended generation that needs safe spaces when presented with ideas they don't agree with.

 

[Doc Creed]

And it's turned young people (again, not all young people) into an entitled, offended generation that needs safe spaces when presented with ideas they don't agree with.