Elba's Casting CONFIRMED?!!

[Robert Gray]

Wow, lots of assumptions you're making about me.

Yes, I am. I expect others are too because you are not doing very well in verbalizing your thoughts. I am going to reiterate that you should probably take a step back from this discussion. I am not gentle when it comes to rhetoric, and when I... a rather infamous Robert Gray... think you are over the top, it means you are way over the top. Right now I'm leaving the kids gloves on because I don't think you are a bad guy. I suspect your passion for the topic (which we share) and discussions and arguments you have had ELSEWHERE is confusing your judgement here. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. Please consider taking it down a notch. And for the record, we aren't on the same side. There are no sides here. I don't like that kind of perspective. We are just quacking voices on the internet discussing books we love. I don't need help making my points, nor do I offer you any in making yours. That makes the discussion about us, and talking about us holds no interest for me.

 

[Tery]

 

[Geminii23]

Ok... hopefully I won't get banned from the forums after this. But let me see if I can lighten up the room here (or drag it down further LOL). Playing devil's advocate...What if Jet Li or Jackie Chan were cast as Roland? Would anyone object? Why/Why not?

I completely understand SK choosing to publicly accept Elba or any other actor chosen as Roland. Ultimately it isn't his decision to make if he has turned the rights over to Hollywood. But I find it very hard to believe that he intended this change when he wrote the DT novels. Surely when Michael Whelan was first doing the illustrations, SK had an opportunity to speak up and say "Ya know what Michael...I am not sure about the direction you are going with my character here. He looks very different than I imagined him when I wrote this book." Add to that the subsequent 30+ years of DT books, artwork and comics that have depicted all of the characters a certain way and you really have to wonder why SK wouldn't take a more firm stance like Stan Lee did with Spider-Man (supposedly in the leaked emails at Sony) on the whole race changing trend right now.

As a screenwriter myself, I would say that any writer (even a novelist) who claims that they don't have a clear and defined vision of what a character looks like in their mind while they are writing - is lying. In fact, most all of the writers I know have a dream cast in mind. Those ideal "what if" actors that could play the roles. Does that mean my mind can't be changed on it? Of course not. If the movie is done well and the actor nails the part then that is really all that should matter. But I also make a lot of effort to write characters that aren't defined by race but rather personality traits and actions.

I suppose the real thing that bothers me about all of this is that the people making these casting decisions are most likely not true fans of the work to begin with. They are business men and women running numbers in a conference room and trying to ensure that Hollywood makes the most money possible. Nothing more. So if there risk analysis machine spits out a magic combination of Will Smith as Roland, Jackie Chan as Eddie and Julia Roberts as Susannah then that is unfortunately what we would get. LOL

 

[Blake]

joe hill should have played Roland. He's the right age and he's got a beard and he can act I reckon, so why didn't they do it. Get with the program.

 

[Senor_Biggles]

So this is getting fun, huh? O

 

[AnnaMarie]

Ok... hopefully I won't get banned from the forums after this. But let me see if I can lighten up the room here (or drag it down further LOL). Playing devil's advocate...What if Jet Li or Jackie Chan were cast as Roland? Would anyone object? Why/Why not?

I completely understand SK choosing to publicly accept Elba or any other actor chosen as Roland. Ultimately it isn't his decision to make if he has turned the rights over to Hollywood. But I find it very hard to believe that he intended this change when he wrote the DT novels. Surely when Michael Whelan was first doing the illustrations, SK had an opportunity to speak up and say "Ya know what Michael...I am not sure about the direction you are going with my character here. He looks very different than I imagined him when I wrote this book." Add to that the subsequent 30+ years of DT books, artwork and comics that have depicted all of the characters a certain way and you really have to wonder why SK wouldn't take a more firm stance like Stan Lee did with Spider-Man (supposedly in the leaked emails at Sony) on the whole race changing trend right now.

As a screenwriter myself, I would say that any writer (even a novelist) who claims that they don't have a clear and defined vision of what a character looks like in their mind while they are writing - is lying. In fact, most all of the writers I know have a dream cast in mind. Those ideal "what if" actors that could play the roles. Does that mean my mind can't be changed on it? Of course not. If the movie is done well and the actor nails the part then that is really all that should matter. But I also make a lot of effort to write characters that aren't defined by race but rather personality traits and actions.

I suppose the real thing that bothers me about all of this is that the people making these casting decisions are most likely not true fans of the work to begin with. They are business men and women running numbers in a conference room and trying to ensure that Hollywood makes the most money possible. Nothing more. So if there risk analysis machine spits out a magic combination of Will Smith as Roland, Jackie Chan as Eddie and Julia Roberts as Susannah then that is unfortunately what we would get. LOL

I would still object. For all the reasons I object to Idris.

I also hate the last changes I heard were being made in Cell. In that movie, I don't think Tom's race matters. But they took a passive young gay man who is a hero in the book, and put Samuel L. Jackson in his place as a retired army....something. sergeant?

Will that change the story? Absolutely. Will it make the movie less enjoyable? Not if you are not a fan of the book.

And maybe that's the issue. Maybe (in my mind) King is selling us out to make more money. In his books he can (and has) killed characters. But this murder is different. He is allowing the execution of characters we love by people who obviously don't care about them. And all for money. And that IS his right. They are HIS books and HIS characters. And he has the right to chose money.

~~~

I don't actually understand how he can support some of these major changes, while hating The Shining as much as he did.

 

[Robert Gray]

I don't actually understand how he can support some of these major changes, while hating The Shining as much as he did.

It isn't about the money (at least not anymore). King could buy his own chain of islands and still afford to have mad scientists make hybrid animal people for him. King, like many of us, grew up on the movies. He loves books. He reads constantly. He also loves the movies. The kid in him that used to hitch rides to see movies has never died. Even with all the stupidity Hollywood produces, he still believes. He wants to see his characters on the big screen just like we want to see them. I hate what Hollywood does to many of the books I love. They get it right just often enough, and when they do it is enough to keep me going back to watch other films. We just have to remember that it is like playing Slots. You are ahead if you just break even.

I don't know if I would go so far as to say he supports anything. There just isn't much he can do one way or the other. Hollywood has wised up too. They tend to put clauses in their contracts now which can prevent and penalize an author from being too vocal (or negative) about the project. All in all, we have to take the good with the bad. If we want a chance to see the characters on the big screen, we are forced to allow the hacks to get their hands on the merchandise. The most effective way to vote is with your wallet. I never see a film on opening weekend anymore. If I hear that a film version of a favorite book just guts the source material, I don't go. We have far more power than Mr. King does in regards to Hollywood. If I am ever so diligent (and lucky) to have work I've written get published, I too would want to see it translated to the big screen. I tell myself now that I would never sell the rights without veto power. It is easy to say things to yourself like that. We lie best when we lie to ourselves.

 

[Geminii23]

I would still object. For all the reasons I object to Idris.

I also hate the last changes I heard were being made in Cell. In that movie, I don't think Tom's race matters. But they took a passive young gay man who is a hero in the book, and put Samuel L. Jackson in his place as a retired army....something. sergeant?

Will that change the story? Absolutely. Will it make the movie less enjoyable? Not if you are not a fan of the book.

And maybe that's the issue. Maybe (in my mind) King is selling us out to make more money. In his books he can (and has) killed characters. But this murder is different. He is allowing the execution of characters we love by people who obviously don't care about them. And all for money. And that IS his right. They are HIS books and HIS characters. And he has the right to chose money.

~~~

I don't actually understand how he can support some of these major changes, while hating The Shining as much as he did.

I was not aware that they were changing that character's orientation. I thought a couple years ago they were promoting all over the internet the fact that Samuel L. Jackson was going to be playing the "first openly gay man" in SK movie. So they have now changed this?

I don't think it is just SK selling out. I think it is becoming a trend in Hollywood as a whole. The constant race and gender changing in comics, movies and tv of long established works to me is nothing more than political statements. When it is done authentically and well written I have no problem with it. But when it feels like a gimmick, it just doesn't work IMHO.

Most of my friends had no problems with MCD playing Kingpin in DareDevil. It didn't feel like a gimmick because he was perfect for the character. The problem was the movie wasn't good and just a sloppy mess. SLJ playing Nick Fury was a perfect choice as well. He did such a great job and the movies were fantastic so his race was irrelevant. But Nick Fuy's race has always been irrelevant as a character. There really isn't anything special about him that is tied to being caucasian. So again, it all goes back to the writing.

 

[AnnaMarie]

I was not aware that they were changing that character's orientation. I thought a couple years ago they were promoting all over the internet the fact that Samuel L. Jackson was going to be playing the "first openly gay man" in SK movie. So they have now changed this?
.

I've never heard or read that anywhere.

 

[Senor_Biggles]

Probably a little ambitious to suggest leaving race to one side for the moment, but another interesting thing about the casting of Idris Elba is that – whatever you might think about his abilities as an actor – he’s not an A-list star who’s going to guarantee you hitting at least a $100 million at the box office. If the movie is going to be a success then most of the tickets they sell will have to go to people who aren’t yet initiated with The Dark Tower so - assuming that they’re going to throw at least a little money at it to try and build a franchise and not shoot it all against greenscreen in Akiva Goldsman’s basement – it is a little surprising that they haven’t gone for a bigger name to generate some buzz and guarantee some bums on seats. Idris Elba isn’t exactly short of work and he has been in some pretty big and fairly successful movies, but I’m not sure his name alone is a guaranteed draw. Is Matthew McConaughey confirmed for this yet? Probably he’s the bigger draw on the back of his Oscar win and Interstellar and it occurred to me that they could be looking at beefing up the role of Walter to give him more screen time?

 

[Takoren]

It's starting to sound like Elba and McConaughey are indeed cast, as is Abbey Lee as...Tirana. Huh?

Yep, this is gonna be Dark Tower in Name Only, and I for one pass.

 

[charlotte98]

Ok... hopefully I won't get banned from the forums after this. But let me see if I can lighten up the room here (or drag it down further LOL). Playing devil's advocate...What if Jet Li or Jackie Chan were cast as Roland? Would anyone object? Why/Why not?

Yes, I would object. Detta hated white people, not Asians. Detta was oppressed by the whites in the time of the 1960's. She wouldn't necessarily have any qualms about anyone of the Asian race, IMO. I would object to an Asian Roland, but for different reasons. Any other race but white will destroy the entire second book. Period. It's central to the plot. I object to a black gunslinger because Detta's reaction to Roland would be drastically different if he was the same race as her. Not saying she would LOOOVE him, but she wouldn't have the same relationship with him. The relationship that carries us to the end of the books.

As far as Sai King saying he doesn't care what color the gunslinger is as long as he can draw fast enough, what choice does he have? None. He has sold the rights, so he has NO say whatsoever. What he does have to watch out for is his reputation, and in this day and age of racial hyper sensitivity, he could get seriously in trouble w/ people if he said he wanted a white gunslinger. It would have been career suicide for him to say that. So he said he didn't care... because hey, they're gonna do what they want to do, and what is it to him? His books are done, and he gets paid either way.

Anyone defending a non-white Roland obviously doesn't care about the books one whit.

Now before anyone else wants to call me a racist, let me just say this: I insist on Roland being white... but as far as the other characters, I don't care. Suzannah/Odetta/Detta must be black. Jake can be black, Callahan can be black, hell, the entire Calla can be black. Everyone but Roland and possibly Eddie; their races being different do somewhat effect their relationship. I only care because changing their races (Roland/possibly Eddie) changes too much of the story.
Let Elba play the man in black, Let him play Alain or Cuthbert in the prequels, let him play any other character. He is a fine actor. He's just not Roland.

 

[César Hernández-Meraz]

Was the question about Jet Li and Jackie Chan perhaps meant to make us see that, sometimes, it seems people only cry "racism" and "inclusion" about black people?

That is something that has always seemed weird to me. I have never been to the USA, but I think there are people from all races living there. Whites, blacks, hispanic, asian...

Everyone (generalization of "everyone", but you know what I mean) cries out if a movie does not have any black characters, but it seems okay for movies to lack any other races.

I guess my position is that inclusion is great and cool, but only if it is not forced.

I would not want every movie to be forced to have a latino person, for instance.

 

[Takoren]

Was the question about Jet Li and Jackie Chan perhaps meant to make us see that, sometimes, it seems people only cry "racism" and "inclusion" about black people?

That is something that has always seemed weird to me. I have never been to the USA, but I think there are people from all races living there. Whites, blacks, hispanic, asian...

Everyone (generalization of "everyone", but you know what I mean) cries out if a movie does not have any black characters, but it seems okay for movies to lack any other races.

I guess my position is that inclusion is great and cool, but only if it is not forced.

I would not want every movie to be forced to have a latino person, for instance.

Trust me, you're not the only one to notice. I know why it happens, but I'm not going to discuss it here. It's silly, though, and just highlights the hypocrisy of "diversity" and "inclusiveness" when really what they mean is "pandering". I'm not a person of color, but I have seen and heard black men and women suggesting that they would rather watch all white productions than feel pandered to, and watch movies and TV shows engage in tokenism.

 

[jt0565]

Why not make Detta white and Eddie a woman? The crimson King could be changed to a queen and Jake can be a bumbler.

The fact that we are even having this discussion means this is going to be an abortion of a adaptation and I hope it bankrupts the idiots who are exercising their creative license to destroy a magnificent tale.

And I love Idris as an actor.

 

[JaneJeffer]

Please, please, Mr. King...don't allow such a drastic change to Roland's persona! I love Idris Alba but he's no Roland. I don't even know why he'd be considered. I keep hearing it's a rumor--a rather persistent one--so I'm hoping that's the case. But if not, I'll not be watching.

 

[muskrat]

Just stupid. Change for the sake of change, trying to stir things up to get attention, and obviously no respect for the source material. Media bandwagonning, following of trends. Gimmicks.

Next week: SHAFT, starring Steve Buscemi.

I was gonna boycot this anyway, so, whatever.

 

[jt0565]

They should cast all women and call it Orange is the new Man in Black.

 

[Baz]

I think the problem people have with this casting goes into two areas:

Firstly, Roland is white in peoples minds, its that simple (I did see him as very tanned though, all those years in the desert an all). To be called or insinuated as being racist for observing that fact is deserving of ridicule.

Secondly, others (to a lesser extent than above) have observed a problem arising online, in university's, entertainment industry's and feminism especially of SJW's. These people, willing to accuse anyone who disagrees with them of racism/sexism/patriarchy and worse. This has mostly come from left wing political movements (before anyone from the left bites my head off, I'm not right wing, I'd rather take shrapnel to the nuts than vote Tory). There's a feeling that The Dark Tower Movie will become another victim of this fleeting hysteria, that the producers are somehow infected and allowing themselves to be effected by it. The gaming press has been heavily criticized and exposed for leaning to one side on the debate, and misrepresenting and slandering anyone who disagrees. They've even gone after peoples careers because people disagreed with them... I have a feeling this network will try to claim The Dark Tower, as they have done with various Marvel movies/comics to push their agenda further.

The only reason any of this bothers me in relation to The Dark Tower is, I want this movie to be a great. My expectations are probably to high in this age, but I'm thinking along the lines of Seven Samurai, Gone With The Wind, Lord of the Rings, Wizard of Oz and other classics. Hell even Harry Potter. (cue people making reference to changes made from book to film and how it didn't matter, mostly to people who didn't give a damn about the book probably)

For me, everything that needs to be in the film is in the book. Adding the political climate of our world currently, is a mistake (through subtle PC changes). Instead explore the ideas that are already there, and of the time of Roland, Eddie, Jake and Sue. Otherwise this film will only be "of its time", rather than the "timeless classic" Kings work in this case deserves to be.

To finish, I would rather The Dark Tower took some inspiration from The Hateful Eight, and not be afraid the explore the racial tensions/language that was used in those darker times of Sue's time. Because to observe them as they were written, gives her character so much more meaning. And shows the horror humans are capable of.

 

[muskrat]

I have a feeling this network will try to claim The Dark Tower, as they have done with various Marvel movies/comics to push their agenda further.

Black Cap doesn't bother me a bit. Hell, every five years someone has to take over for Steve Rogers--may as well give ol Sam Wilson (Falcon) his chance. And he looks badass:

But as for Roland, I've always pictured him in my head as a scary cross between Clint Eastwood and Sai King. It's not a race thing, it's purely asthetic--I mean, that's what he looks like in all the damn illustrations, that's what I wanna see on the screen.

Other works, fine; Larry Underwood, say--he could be black and I wouldn't give a damn at all. Barbie from Dome could be Latino for all I care. BUT DON'T F**K with THE GUNSLINGER. That 'Spaghetti Western/Man With No Name' is such an iconic look, and these books mean SO MUCH to so many of us fans, we don't want any Hollywood tampering.

And I love Elba in THOR, BTW.