Hypothetical "what if's" and a question

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Arcadevere

Gentle Lady From Brady Hartsfield Defense Squad
Mar 3, 2016
771
3,559
Manila, Philippines
steamcommunity.com
#21
Hi everyone,

I'm new here and just finished reading this fabulous book.

With all of Jake and Al's travels up and down the Rabbit Hole, I started wondering...

#1: Let's say Jake goes down the Rabbit Hole while Al is hanging out in his diner. Then for whatever reason, Al goes down the Rabbit Hole while Jake is still there. Since Al has caused a reset, does that mean Jake simply ceases to exist?

#2: No matter how much time passes in the past, only two minutes elapse in the present time while Jake is down the Rabbit Hole. Which means that when Jake went down the first time he killed Frank Dunning, Al was only waiting for him for two minutes. But what if Frank had killed Jake? Would Al see the time tick past the two minute mark and realize something was wrong?

#3: If Jake had decided to forget about saving JFK and just live in the past with Sadie, there would eventually be two Jakes when his date of birth rolled around. And then what? Jake II would meet Al and be recruited to save JFK (since Jake I decided not to). What would happen if Jake I and Jake II ran into each other in the past?

Those are my hypotheticals - forgive me if I'm overthinking this.

Now, my question. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the meaning of the alternative 2011 that Jake returns to. I *think* he finds that the world has gone to **** not because of JFK living, but because all the trips down the Rabbit Hole have destroyed reality. If that is the case, how is it that Jake was able to put things right by yet another trip down the Rabbit Hole? Wouldn't that just create another string and hasten the end of the world?

Howdy and welcome to SKMB

Here is my entire reaction
1. What the hell? *in one of background voices from the stupid videos at the show science of stupid*
Okay seriously that was a bit nuts, but in my own theory, the reset will cause to a single person not two person. And we haven't see a scene where there are two person went down at the hole at the same time, but i believe it will not cause any reset to either one of them, unless one of them re-enters the hole again. Lockdain made a good assumption. And i bet he/she answered your question in this

2. If Jake died inside the rabbit hole, he will never return to the future so he was so careful while in rabbit hole and that's why the card man's warning to him was so massive and like forcing him to give up. This is also my theory, If Jake died, he would be a person in the void in the timeline threads, he would be like what happened to Dream of the endless at Sandman comic series : overture, he would be in the limbo And will disappear in future like a missing person.

3.
This theory reminds me of what happened to Kratos at the near to final scenes of God of War II after he killed clotho and go back at the time he would save himself against the blade of Zeus wich result in his death at the previous timeline (but he lives and escape through the hades and ventures through the place where he saw the sheeds of time (gosh my fave arena at GOW) and into the palace of the sisters of fate to travel back at that time again). But unlike 11/22/63, there is no reset at GOW and once he create a new disturbance at the old scene, instead of changing the future, it will now result in ultimate collapse of the peaceful flow of time because of the death of the sisters of fate.

So i remember GOW II while reading the time travelling timeline of 11/22/63 (gosh, sorry for a fangirl freak out XD)
 
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mal

content
Jun 23, 2007
3,666
20,096
56
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
#22
Hey mal - maybe try my recipe for pound cake [post # 19] (or get the wife to bake it!) - ew - I hope that did not sound too sexist :a24: :a11: :m_pan: (Have you ever noticed she seems to be cooking a tiny monkey in that frying pan?)
Hey Neesy! Thanks for the recipe. I already e-mailed it to my home. Nothing sexist about what you said, she is a great cook and although our division of labour is somewhat traditional I still am the boss and tell her what to do (wait...was that her?...uh-oh).
 

Neesy

#1 fan (Annie Wilkes cousin) 1st cousin Mom's side
May 24, 2012
57,448
212,874
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
#23
Hey Neesy! Thanks for the recipe. I already e-mailed it to my home. Nothing sexist about what you said, she is a great cook and although our division of labour is somewhat traditional I still am the boss and tell her what to do (wait...was that her?...uh-oh).
You've been reading too many of DiO'Bolic 's posts ;;D:laugh:
 
Jul 5, 2016
12
28
73
#24
Hi everyone,

I'm new here and just finished reading this fabulous book.

With all of Jake and Al's travels up and down the Rabbit Hole, I started wondering...

#1: Let's say Jake goes down the Rabbit Hole while Al is hanging out in his diner. Then for whatever reason, Al goes down the Rabbit Hole while Jake is still there. Since Al has caused a reset, does that mean Jake simply ceases to exist?

#2: No matter how much time passes in the past, only two minutes elapse in the present time while Jake is down the Rabbit Hole. Which means that when Jake went down the first time he killed Frank Dunning, Al was only waiting for him for two minutes. But what if Frank had killed Jake? Would Al see the time tick past the two minute mark and realize something was wrong?

#3: If Jake had decided to forget about saving JFK and just live in the past with Sadie, there would eventually be two Jakes when his date of birth rolled around. And then what? Jake II would meet Al and be recruited to save JFK (since Jake I decided not to). What would happen if Jake I and Jake II ran into each other in the past?

Those are my hypotheticals - forgive me if I'm overthinking this.

Now, my question. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the meaning of the alternative 2011 that Jake returns to. I *think* he finds that the world has gone to **** not because of JFK living, but because all the trips down the Rabbit Hole have destroyed reality. If that is the case, how is it that Jake was able to put things right by yet another trip down the Rabbit Hole? Wouldn't that just create another string and hasten the end of the world?
Hi everyone,

I'm new here and just finished reading this fabulous book.

With all of Jake and Al's travels up and down the Rabbit Hole, I started wondering...

#1: Let's say Jake goes down the Rabbit Hole while Al is hanging out in his diner. Then for whatever reason, Al goes down the Rabbit Hole while Jake is still there. Since Al has caused a reset, does that mean Jake simply ceases to exist?

#2: No matter how much time passes in the past, only two minutes elapse in the present time while Jake is down the Rabbit Hole. Which means that when Jake went down the first time he killed Frank Dunning, Al was only waiting for him for two minutes. But what if Frank had killed Jake? Would Al see the time tick past the two minute mark and realize something was wrong?

#3: If Jake had decided to forget about saving JFK and just live in the past with Sadie, there would eventually be two Jakes when his date of birth rolled around. And then what? Jake II would meet Al and be recruited to save JFK (since Jake I decided not to). What would happen if Jake I and Jake II ran into each other in the past?

Those are my hypotheticals - forgive me if I'm overthinking this.

Now, my question. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the meaning of the alternative 2011 that Jake returns to. I *think* he finds that the world has gone to **** not because of JFK living, but because all the trips down the Rabbit Hole have destroyed reality. If that is the case, how is it that Jake was able to put things right by yet another trip down the Rabbit Hole? Wouldn't that just create another string and hasten the end of the world?
All good questions, and I have no idea.
 
Apr 4, 2014
29
114
29
#25
Hi everyone,

I'm new here and just finished reading this fabulous book.

With all of Jake and Al's travels up and down the Rabbit Hole, I started wondering...

#1: Let's say Jake goes down the Rabbit Hole while Al is hanging out in his diner. Then for whatever reason, Al goes down the Rabbit Hole while Jake is still there. Since Al has caused a reset, does that mean Jake simply ceases to exist?

#2: No matter how much time passes in the past, only two minutes elapse in the present time while Jake is down the Rabbit Hole. Which means that when Jake went down the first time he killed Frank Dunning, Al was only waiting for him for two minutes. But what if Frank had killed Jake? Would Al see the time tick past the two minute mark and realize something was wrong?

#3: If Jake had decided to forget about saving JFK and just live in the past with Sadie, there would eventually be two Jakes when his date of birth rolled around. And then what? Jake II would meet Al and be recruited to save JFK (since Jake I decided not to). What would happen if Jake I and Jake II ran into each other in the past?

1) I don't think it would erase Jake (kind of like how food didn't erase when brought back). Instead, I'd guess he just wouldn't be able to go down if Jake was there already.

2) If more than 2 minutes passed, it'd be safe for Al to have searched the records for Jake/George and if he found nothing he could assume he is alive and decided to stay there permanently.

3) I don't think anything. There'd be a lot of confusion for Jake II, but it's like the "what if you killed your dad" question... why the **** would you do that?! Another possible scenario is that Jake II ceases to exist since Jake I already does, therefore alternating jakes parents, his family, Christies, and others futures. Then, the butterly could really spread its wings!
 

recitador

Speed Reader
Sep 3, 2016
1,704
7,947
35
#26
Hi everyone,

I'm new here and just finished reading this fabulous book.

With all of Jake and Al's travels up and down the Rabbit Hole, I started wondering...

#1: Let's say Jake goes down the Rabbit Hole while Al is hanging out in his diner. Then for whatever reason, Al goes down the Rabbit Hole while Jake is still there. Since Al has caused a reset, does that mean Jake simply ceases to exist?

#2: No matter how much time passes in the past, only two minutes elapse in the present time while Jake is down the Rabbit Hole. Which means that when Jake went down the first time he killed Frank Dunning, Al was only waiting for him for two minutes. But what if Frank had killed Jake? Would Al see the time tick past the two minute mark and realize something was wrong?

#3: If Jake had decided to forget about saving JFK and just live in the past with Sadie, there would eventually be two Jakes when his date of birth rolled around. And then what? Jake II would meet Al and be recruited to save JFK (since Jake I decided not to). What would happen if Jake I and Jake II ran into each other in the past?

Those are my hypotheticals - forgive me if I'm overthinking this.

Now, my question. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the meaning of the alternative 2011 that Jake returns to. I *think* he finds that the world has gone to **** not because of JFK living, but because all the trips down the Rabbit Hole have destroyed reality. If that is the case, how is it that Jake was able to put things right by yet another trip down the Rabbit Hole? Wouldn't that just create another string and hasten the end of the world?
they essentially explain the answer to this in the book. there is no "reset" . . .every time someone enters the time hole it kicks off an alternate reality. so:

regarding number 1: they're occupying 2 different universes most likely. i'm not sure how that would shake out for them getting back to the future, but it wouldn't necessarily make jake not exist.

number 2 is a little harder to call, but probably. or at least he'd know jake wasn't coming back

as for 3 . . .the odds would be pretty against them meeting, but older jake would know better than to expose himself to the younger

and while this may not have been the case in real life, king treated JFK like an important linchpin in history. a major event, with major consequences to history for changing. it's a common argument when it comes to time travel. should you go back to kill hitler? but what if you cause something worse? although the earthquakes were a result of jake and al creating too many alternate realities and putting too much strain on reality, the alternate history was more of a presentation of why changing a major event in history wouldn't necessarily produce positive results, even if it seemed a complete shoo in to do so.
 
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RichardX

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2006
1,677
4,112
#27
I think it is possible to simplify a bit. In King's realm, certain events appear to be fated like the JFK assassination. That is what happens in the linear progression of actual events. The baseline. Why exactly they are fated is not clear. Maybe because there is some type of cosmic check and balance working for good or ill that is beyond our comprehension. Time travel altering those fated events becomes an abhoration that itself causes disruption in the plan. So even if JFK surviving the assassination or Hitler being killed should result in a better world it does not because that messes with the larger plan. It is a bit like Puritan predestination in that regard. Events are fated to happen by God or whoever is in charge and shouldn't be messed with. That will always result in bad things. I wouldn't get too hung up on the technical details of time travel. First, because it is not clear it can happen. So a fictional author has a lot of discretion to create the rules. Second, if it could happen there are some theories like quantum physics that suggest, for example, that it is actually possible to be two places at the same time. So issues like meeting yourself might not be an issue. And if you think back to ancient history you can only imagine what the Greeks or Romans would make of inventions that most people take entirely for granted today like TV. That would be something beyond their comprehension. A form of magic that they could never even dream possible. Meeting your future self could be possible even though it seems absurd today.
 
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