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Loose Ends, Plotholes, Speculation, and Theories (SPOILERS)

Discussion in 'IT' started by Pop Rocks, Aug 14, 2017.

  1. Rockym

    Rockym Well-Known Member

    Well, what I was saying was that we know It landed on earth from space from the smoke hole incident in the book. And it seems to have happened millions of years ago, maybe before the dinosaurs. So I though maybe the leatherheads or the Tommyknockers are what It's species evolved into after millions of years.
     
  2. Robert Gray

    Robert Gray Well-Known Member

    Yes and no. It came from the sky and made a really big hole. But if you will recall from the chapter, Richie and Mike kind of agreed it wasn't really a spaceship. It came from "outside" and by outside we are talking about everything. Some people here have called it dimensional travel, but I'm not really sure I'm down with defining it that way either. The different dimensions are different levels of the Tower. It came from outside REALITY. So it is alien, but not a space alien.
     
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  3. The capering elves wallpaper was in DT3 when Jake went into the Mansion.
     
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  4. I don't think it could of been Mike. He started forgetting again in 1985.
     
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  5. Reactor

    Reactor Well-Known Member

    - Dandelo cannot be the same species as It, since It stated to Beverly that he was the last survivor from a dying planet. So this is a contradiction.

    - I've read on the Wiki that many kid characters are labelled as "dead" (for instance, Peter Gordon, Gard Jagemayer and such), saying It got them. Maybe even the book says that, I dunno, I have the Hungarian translation. This is clearly a contradiction for two reasons. One: The first clash between It and the Losers forced It to retreat deeply and for an early sleep, and didn't emerge until 1985 again. So how could It kill the mentioned children? Two: At the final chapter, we see Calvin Clark as a firefighter, getting shocked and killed by a live wire upon dismounting the firetruck. Calvin Clark was a classmate of Ben's and Beverly's, so he was perfectly alive and healthy until 1985, thank you.

    - Betty Ripson's father said to Mike he heard Betty laughing or screaming from the pipes in late 1958. This is also a contradiction, as the Losers defeated It and forced an early nap, so It could not have play voice tricks with anyone.

    - After the destruction of Derry, the 29 Neibolt Street was left intact, whilst everything else where It appeared turned to ashes and rubble. Eeny-weeny-little-plothole.
     
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  6. recitador

    recitador Speed Reader

    i just checked the wiki. it only says that it was possible peter gordon and gard jagermayer died because of eddie saying at one point, that after a certain victim (jimmy cullum maybe? i forget), that the only kids that died in 1958 were henry's friends. calvin clarks wiki entry is correct, and describes how he died.
     
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  7. Reactor

    Reactor Well-Known Member

    Well, Victor and Belchy were the final victims of the 1958 killing spree, so Eddie was right in this. Before that, Jimmy Cullum and Patrick Hockstetter were killed. Peter Gordon, Moose Sadler, Gard Jagermeyer and the others must have survived however.
     
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  8. recitador

    recitador Speed Reader

    theoretically. we didn't get a play by play of everything that happened that summer. they could have easily died "off screen" it's not like we know the names of all the kids who only disappeared, vs being discovered as victims, for instance.
     
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  9. Robert Gray

    Robert Gray Well-Known Member

    What makes you think what it says to Bev is true? Like its form, everything the thing says is a glamour, concepts it communicates for the fun of it. It lies by nature. I personally believe that Dandelo is one of the spawn that Ben missed in the darkness, a spiderling that fled through the thinny. As it is part of its parent, there are allusions to what happened with the Losers in encountering Dandelo. It also feeds on emotions, but prefers a different flavor. It is also much younger and thus much less powerful. It isn't an avatar of the Deadlights. It is a spawn of one such avatar.

    Sure it can. Just because it sleeps doesn't mean its influence isn't at work. Derry has a higher murder rate than any city like it even on the best of years. :) When it sleeps it is merely a dreaming spirit. It doesn't have to be awake and actively hunting to affect the world around it. The mere presence of it is wrong, bad.

    What are you basing this on? I don't recall Neibolt being mentioned as being left intact? I suppose I could have forgotten something, but that seems like a detail that would stick out to me. Are you assuming this because we don't get a specific scene where it blows up, drowns, or burns down?
     
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  10. Reactor

    Reactor Well-Known Member

    You're right about It might have been lying to Beverly, though, partially It was right. The balloons stated that It came from outer space...and It did indeed. Being the last of a dying species must also be true (apart from It's hatchlings), otherwise the Turtle would warn the Losers about this, and it also does not seem logical. If there is only one Turtle, there must not be any more Its either, that is what equilibrium demands. And during the final confrontation, It would positively hint that killing It wouldn't make a difference, as there are several other life beings like It, and they'd take the place afterwards. So I'm assuming It told the truth.

    I remember it was mentioned in the first interlude that the murder rate in Derry is higher, I just don't know how much influence It has over the city when It dozes. At the other two occassions, when It was talking thru the drains to people, It was awake. The case of Mr. Ripson stands out for some reason.

    As for the destruction of the 29 Neibolt Street, it was a paramount place enough not to forget about as an oversight, whilst every other location was destroyed. This is why I assume that 29 Neibolt Street survived, especially because it was nowhere near to the town center.
     
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  11. Robert Gray

    Robert Gray Well-Known Member

    Well it isn't really from outer space, just outside of everything. That isn't space Bill crosses to get to that cosmic barrier. It is the black. That is why there is no description of stars or moons or anything else. And for what it is worth, Pennywise is lying directly about it being the last of a dying race. Remember, we get a direct look into its thoughts. It believes itself to be one of two cosmic, immortal entities (itself and the Turtle). To be last there had to be a first, and there isn't. It also doesn't believe it is dying or can die. The Turtle wouldn't warn the Losers about anything. It only speaks because Bill speaks to it. It makes suggestions about the matter at hand but doesn't elaborate. That isn't the Turtle's way. And there is another, i.e. the Other. We must also remember that the creature has been feeding for a purpose, and spawning appears to have been the endgame. Born of the Deadlights it is a spiritual entity that has to take physical form. That is not its natural state. For untold centuries it has been gestating spawn, i.e. children that would be born of it in this reality. One can only imagine the implications. At the very least, I expect that long process would be a step towards the octopus getting into the bottle to eat the fish, metaphorically speaking. Looking to Tolkien's Ungoliant again we see this as another similarity. A powerful, cosmic spirit takes monstrous form. It spends countless years feeding and growing in power. It breeds with creatures of the physical world and spawns monsters like itself but far weaker.

    The crime rate, as well as people going missing is many times the national average even when the monster sleeps (if you want to call it that). During the time of the cycle it goes off the chart. This is explained to us in painful detail by the adult version of Mike Hanlon. The implications of this are unsettling to say the least. It means the monster has a fitful sleep at best and its influence still pervades Derry on some level. It could be the weak-minded and evil among the residents are dogsbodies for the sleeping spirit, indulging in horrible acts partially driven by the monster. If we consider 11/22/63
    this theory is bolstered a great deal. Think about the butcher who tries to kill his whole family. Think about what he says to the hero who is attempting to intercede. They could be the words of just a madman in a fury over finding someone in his house he doesn't recognize, but the same statement could be made by the spirit of Pennywise seeing another interloper on its turf. If you haven't read the book, you should. I'm doing my best to avoid direct spoilers.

    The mall is nowhere near the town center either but it explodes. The Standpipe is not downtown. It is at the highest point in town; it bites the dust too. I agree that I do not recall a specific description of Neibolt Street burning down (or something like that) but it is implied that all the places touched heavily by it are destroyed. While I'm not totally discounting your supposition, I think it is likely a bridge too far. I think it simply didn't make the cut for the paragraphs.
     
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