Steve's Explanation For Loser's Sex Scene

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John13

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Sep 25, 2016
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I also joined just now specifically to comment on this.

I read IT on an international flight from Taipei to Tokyo to Houston - all 1,000+ pages. It was in perhaps my 13th hour of sitting in the Houston airport waiting on a standby that I reached the Beverly gang bang. Now look, I am no prig...lol...but I was like, WTF. It seemed to come out of nowhere, it made NO sense at all, and I still consider it a weird mistake and a flaw in the book. In general IT stands in need of some serious blue penciling; it's flabby and ponderous and would benefit by being shot of at least half of its bulk. King is an exuberant writer but something happened to his ability to self-edit, apparently.

But the gang bang...I mean, forget the fact that they were all 11 years old. They needed to "come together," so it dawned on Beverly that the best way to do that would be in the literal physical way, with them all taking turns screwing her right there in the sewer like she's Sasha Grey? And imagine being the last guy...

I'm not going to accuse people who have no problem with this scene of being into "child porn" or whatever, and nobody needs to defend it on grounds that "kids have sexual thoughts"...ugh. It just makes no sense in terms of the internal logic of the story, if you ask me. Sex creates a bond between the people having sex, but that would just mean they'd all bonded individually with Beverly, not with each other (except in the sense that, forgive me, it had to start getting pretty sloppy towards the end). And if anything that would tend to lead to jealousy and infighting. No, I just do not see how it "works" to make Beverly this apropos-of-nothing 11-year-old sexual initiatrix in the sewer, as a means of reestablishing group unity and getting them all unlost - it's a weird narrative choice that doesn't justify itself, period.

While i agree that some incidents should be removed or edited i still think that despite its size this is one of the books that deserves to be so big. For example when i first read this book i hated the interludes. I didnt saw a point there. Now i actually love them. King gives a historical background that makes the story far more epic. I loved the scenes in the end when the city was destroyed. Usually people say that this book is two stories(the story of the kids and the story of the adults). In fact its three(the story of the city too). King demonstrates how Derry has stuck in these endless cycles of violence caused by IT but also by people of Derry who have used to these atrocities. The children must not only escape IT but also the horrible things the adults do. When in the end they destroy IT they destroy the city too bringing a closure.
You have 6 chapters for the June 1958 section and 6 chapters for the July 1958 section. In every of these chapters a member of the seven is the "hero". So you have one+one chapter to learn more for the losers(Stanley deliberately never has a chapter). If i had a complaint that would be the third chapter(six phone calls) which is dangerously anti climatic. Perhaps it would be better to have chapter from Mikes perspective here. Being introduced to so many characters at once its a bit tedious and i frankly never really cared about what they did as adults. You could just mention it
 

jonjon358

New Member
Oct 23, 2016
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Guess I just touched a nerve...better yet, I'm a "wingnut" somehow...lol. Anyway look, it's an opinion - disagree with it if you will. And I really can't see why it should be so controversial. I wasn't saying anything different from others; I just think it's an incredibly bizarre narrative turn that comes from nowhere, doesn't make sense in terms of the story, and leaves me saying "What the hell was that?"

But I wasn't even trying to be colorful! Let alone "nasty." In fact I didn't see it written anywhere that profanity was forbidden, but I chose my words anyway just in case. King is the one who has invited us all to imagine an 11 year old girl letting a bunch of 11 year old boys have sex with her sequentially in lieu of GPS - all I can do is point out just how weird that truly is.
 

jonjon358

New Member
Oct 23, 2016
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And John13 - yeah, the length, maybe it's because I read the whole thing on planes and in an airport in one long stretch, but when I was done with it I felt like groaning. I think the story could've been told in a leaner, meaner way - but that's not what King chose to do; he went epic. Again, that's fine; he's the genius (and I don't mean that sarcastically). It's not one of my favs though. Actually, you ask me, his best book (that I've read so far) is Pet Sematary, as dark and depressing and forlorn of all hope as it is. It packs a real punch!
 

GNTLGNT

The idiot is IN
Jun 15, 2007
87,651
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Guess I just touched a nerve...better yet, I'm a "wingnut" somehow...lol. Anyway look, it's an opinion - disagree with it if you will. And I really can't see why it should be so controversial. I wasn't saying anything different from others; I just think it's an incredibly bizarre narrative turn that comes from nowhere, doesn't make sense in terms of the story, and leaves me saying "What the hell was that?"

But I wasn't even trying to be colorful! Let alone "nasty." In fact I didn't see it written anywhere that profanity was forbidden, but I chose my words anyway just in case. King is the one who has invited us all to imagine an 11 year old girl letting a bunch of 11 year old boys have sex with her sequentially in lieu of GPS - all I can do is point out just how weird that truly is.
...and so, we have swapped opinions...
 

John13

Active Member
Sep 25, 2016
39
149
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Guess I just touched a nerve...better yet, I'm a "wingnut" somehow...lol. Anyway look, it's an opinion - disagree with it if you will. And I really can't see why it should be so controversial. I wasn't saying anything different from others; I just think it's an incredibly bizarre narrative turn that comes from nowhere, doesn't make sense in terms of the story, and leaves me saying "What the hell was that?"

But I wasn't even trying to be colorful! Let alone "nasty." In fact I didn't see it written anywhere that profanity was forbidden, but I chose my words anyway just in case. King is the one who has invited us all to imagine an 11 year old girl letting a bunch of 11 year old boys have sex with her sequentially in lieu of GPS - all I can do is point out just how weird that truly is.

I totally agree that the way the narrative flows might be difficult especially the first time you read it. kings book is like a puzzle in which you slowly put pieces together without knowing the whole picture. This can be problematic for a 1000 pages book since not all people have that patience. But i have read it a couple of times and its this kind of a book that the more times you read it the more interesting it becomes.
You suddenly realize why Stan commits suicide or why Ben never gets married or why Bill is the leader(the only of the seven that had a smaller brother). You also discover hints on what exactly IT is that you fail to discover or understand the first time you read the book. The Stand by comparison is a book that its great but i personally have read it only once(never felt the need to read it second time). IT has hidden secrets while other King books dont have
 
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jonjon358

New Member
Oct 23, 2016
4
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I totally agree that the way the narrative flows might be difficult especially the first time you read it. kings book is like a puzzle in which you slowly put pieces together without knowing the whole picture. This can be problematic for a 1000 pages book since not all people have that patience. But i have read it a couple of times and its this kind of a book that the more times you read it the more interesting it becomes.
You suddenly realize why Stan commits suicide or why Ben never gets married or why Bill is the leader(the only of the seven that had a smaller brother). You also discover hints on what exactly IT is that you fail to discover or understand the first time you read the book. The Stand by comparison is a book that its great but i personally have read it only once(never felt the need to read it second time). IT has hidden secrets while other King books dont have

I'm sure personal taste comes into play too. A lot of King's books have this kind of "epic" structure with an apocalyptic final confrontation in which evil is vanquished and the good guys walk (or maybe hobble) off into the sunset. I tend to find those books unsatisfying...lol. For one thing, the climax always feels like an anticlimax. All the buildup, and then the ultimate revelation of ultimate evil in its ultimate form - there's just no way the reveal could ever be as horrifying as the thought of what it might be. The unknown is always scarier than the known. I mean, look at what IT turns out to be. (I'm not sure how to mark a spoiler, but you know what I'm talking about. And I understand that ironically fear of the unknown is one of the major themes of IT, and the secret of the terror of the "name" itself - "IT," indescribable, mysterious, nameless. But then he goes on to describe IT's "true form" in clinical detail.)

That's why I like books like Pet Sematary - they just drag you down into horror, and there's no denouement where good somehow triumphs in spite of everything. Some things remain unexplained or unrevealed.

But I'm getting away from the thread...but I've probably already said enough about the Beverly gangb...er, um, physical gesture of love and unity and solidarity with her friends...all six of them.
 

César Hernández-Meraz

Wants to be Nick, ends up as Larry
May 19, 2015
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More and more, I am convinced this book has to be read without us forgetting (or with us remembering) how things looked when we were kids. When we were immortal and almighty. When the world was ours to discover and conquer. When we could go to sleep calmly even if something had happened in the day that would keep adults worried and awake.

And I understand that ironically fear of the unknown is one of the major themes of IT, and the secret of the terror of the "name" itself - "IT," indescribable, mysterious, nameless. But then he goes on to describe IT's "true form" in clinical detail.)

I don't remember It being described. We got to see
Its perceived form as It was seen from our world, but there were still so many details left for our imagination when it comes to Its true form outside of our space/time. Even the fact that It has that "tongue" that surely was not a real tongue, I still think Its true form cannot even be fully perceived nor comprehended by humans.
 

Nomik

Carry on
Jun 19, 2016
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Derry, NH
While i agree that some incidents should be removed or edited i still think that despite its size this is one of the books that deserves to be so big. For example when i first read this book i hated the interludes. I didnt saw a point there. Now i actually love them. King gives a historical background that makes the story far more epic. I loved the scenes in the end when the city was destroyed. Usually people say that this book is two stories(the story of the kids and the story of the adults). In fact its three(the story of the city too). King demonstrates how Derry has stuck in these endless cycles of violence caused by IT but also by people of Derry who have used to these atrocities. The children must not only escape IT but also the horrible things the adults do. When in the end they destroy IT they destroy the city too bringing a closure.
You have 6 chapters for the June 1958 section and 6 chapters for the July 1958 section. In every of these chapters a member of the seven is the "hero". So you have one+one chapter to learn more for the losers(Stanley deliberately never has a chapter). If i had a complaint that would be the third chapter(six phone calls) which is dangerously anti climatic. Perhaps it would be better to have chapter from Mikes perspective here. Being introduced to so many characters at once its a bit tedious and i frankly never really cared about what they did as adults. You could just mention it
Hi! Welcome. I'm a little confused right now, is this an assignment?
:facepalm_smiley::p
 

John13

Active Member
Sep 25, 2016
39
149
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Hi! Welcome. I'm a little confused right now, is this an assignment?
:facepalm_smiley::p

I dont understand what you mean if its an assignment. I just respond to the post that claimed that IT should be half its size. I think that despite some bloat here and there, the book is perfectly structured. Three storylines (the past, the present and the history of Derry) that finally meet each other in the end.
6 chapters, one for every hero.(except from Stanley who is deliberately downgraded)
Chapter 4 has Ben as hero
Chapter 5 has Bill as hero
Chapter 6 has Mike as hero(although half of the chapter is about Corcoran dissapearence)
Chapter 7 has Eddie as hero
Chapter 8 has Richie as hero
Chapter 9 has Beverly as hero

The same happens with the 6 July chapters although this time the children usually work as a team
 

Nomik

Carry on
Jun 19, 2016
3,973
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Derry, NH
I dont understand what you mean if its an assignment. I just respond to the post that claimed that IT should be half its size. I think that despite some bloat here and there, the book is perfectly structured. Three storylines (the past, the present and the history of Derry) that finally meet each other in the end.
6 chapters, one for every hero.(except from Stanley who is deliberately downgraded)
Chapter 4 has Ben as hero
Chapter 5 has Bill as hero
Chapter 6 has Mike as hero(although half of the chapter is about Corcoran dissapearence)
Chapter 7 has Eddie as hero
Chapter 8 has Richie as hero
Chapter 9 has Beverly as hero

The same happens with the 6 July chapters although this time the children usually work as a team
I'm sorry, I understood that, it was the way you wrote it. . I guess I was being facetious. I'm sorry, I have literally no filter and an unreadable sense of humor sometimes. (You used the second person pronoun, only ever used in the scope and context of a conversation or an assignment). That was my way of making the connect accessible to you. I feel like explaining a joke that wasn't funny serves no purpose.
What do you think? Are you laughing? I mean, I'm kind of giggling right now. See how no one will notice as I just take notes.
I haven't read the book in a while - never did have a problem with its length. Now that I look at that again, (and since that particular book is not currently in my possession so I'll have to take your word for it) it is perfectly structured.
 

mal

content
Jun 23, 2007
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Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Good points all. Some view through the glass physically and some spiritually. I personally had no problem with that scene and thought it rather fitting based on the bizarre circumstances surrounding the young tet. My only issue I had after reading the book is that I was slightly turned on by the turtle. I haven't been able to look directly into the mirror since.
 

FlakeNoir

Original Kiwi© SKMB®
Moderator
Apr 11, 2006
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Good points all. Some view through the glass physically and some spiritually. I personally had no problem with that scene and thought it rather fitting based on the bizarre circumstances surrounding the young tet. My only issue I had after reading the book is that I was slightly turned on by the turtle. I haven't been able to look directly into the mirror since.

It was the "... of enormous girth" bit, wasn't it? You are hilarious, Mal... :rofl:
 

Nomik

Carry on
Jun 19, 2016
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Derry, NH
Good points all. Some view through the glass physically and some spiritually. I personally had no problem with that scene and thought it rather fitting based on the bizarre circumstances surrounding the young tet. My only issue I had after reading the book is that I was slightly turned on by the turtle. I haven't been able to look directly into the mirror since.
:lol:
 

FlakeNoir

Original Kiwi© SKMB®
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Apr 11, 2006
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Hi Flake, I've been working on a comment for you and Demeter all week. (The story) just thought I'd catch you here and say hello. Accolades in their way ! Oh, and yes, that was funny too.
Hi Nomik... Mal is a crack up, his humour is often very subtle, I get a kick out of loads of his posts. :biggrin2:
Good to 'see' you, looking forward to your HS comments... :smile:
 

Maddie

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
Jul 10, 2006
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I'm sorry, I understood that, it was the way you wrote it. . I guess I was being facetious. I'm sorry, I have literally no filter and an unreadable sense of humor sometimes. (You used the second person pronoun, only ever used in the scope and context of a conversation or an assignment). That was my way of making the connect accessible to you. I feel like explaining a joke that wasn't funny serves no purpose.
What do you think? Are you laughing? I mean, I'm kind of giggling right now. See how no one will notice as I just take notes.
I haven't read the book in a while - never did have a problem with its length. Now that I look at that again, (and since that particular book is not currently in my possession so I'll have to take your word for it) it is perfectly structured.


Nomi I LOVE your no filtered sense of humor! I am giggling right now too, you asked the teeniest little question and then Boom, but you handled it magnificently explaining why you asked. I'm like that too, when all hell breaks loose, somewhere theres a few people snickering about it, I do it too, its always good to see the humor of it and there usually is some and I commend you for such wonderful expression of it. :smile2: After all that was just said about the book, it seemed that was the part that stuck out the most, to me anyway, but like you, I was giggling about it too. :p
 

FlakeNoir

Original Kiwi© SKMB®
Moderator
Apr 11, 2006
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Flakes- thank for saving me from 'going there'!! Luv you!! ;;D
Flake, That was funny! I didn't remember that line when I posted, but it fits beautifully! ;;D
Thanks guys... I can't help it, I'm hard-wired to try and go for the laugh. It's often not appropriate :blush: but seems to be instinct.