Share your thoughts after viewing the movie **DEFINITE SPOILERS**

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recitador

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Sep 3, 2016
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The long and short of it is the film failed for three reasons, none of them having anything to do with fans who read the books.

1. It isn't good. It isn't terrible. It isn't bad. It is simply isn't good.
2. The Studio didn't promote it at all. Thus, even the percentage of people who might have enjoyed it didn't turn up.
3. Aside from not being good, it brought nothing new to the table. This was Hollywood schlock we have seen a 100 times.

I'm going to be brutally honest here, tell the truth and shame the devil. The people who are most forgiving and seem to like the film are the very people everyone was certain would hate it. People who read the books by in large are forgiving that it bears no resemblance to them. Why? Well we had a year to kind of go through the stages of grief. We wanted to like it, so we kind of talked ourselves into it. :D We aren't the problem though. The vast majority of popcorn devouring, soda gargling movie-goers are less well-read than we. They haven't read the series. Some might not even know there were books. They are judging the film purely on how it compares to others and whether it delivers the goods. It didn't. The audiences didn't warm up to it, or at the very least didn't find it interesting enough to drop their shiny coins in the bucket. Audiences, well-read or not, are much more sophisticated than anyone wants to give them credit for these days. They have seen a lot of movies. If you want to wow them, get them into a theater, and blow their socks off you can't just recycle the same damn story you have sold them a thousand times just by changing the names of the protagonist and generic, evil for evil's sake villain. Give them something they haven't seen, don't dumb it down, but sharpen it up and you put butts in seats.

At the very least, you have to show them something they have seen before but in a new light. Let's get down and dirty show we? How about I do a point by point breakdown comparing this film to the Last Action Hero starring big Arnold. It too is about a boy who travels to another world and brings a larger than life hero into what is supposedly the real world. That is also not a good film. My point is that it is almost the same story, albeit one played for laughs rather than melodrama. In fact, I'm betting if I put my mind to it, I could come up with TEN films which revolve around three main characters with one White Hat, one Black Hat, and one catalyst (male or female) and the stakes being the end of the world/universe. They would all have pretty much the same plot. Reluctant, jaded hero brought back to fight the big bad by the intervention of the younger, innocent or at least optimistic catalyst. I'll even go so far as to say the reluctant, jaded hero will be stoic and gruff with a heart of gold. The villain will be crazy and just appear to delight in being evil for no apparent reason. I could go on, but I won't. Most of you reading this know EXACTLY what I'm talking about and in the course of my description you are probably already on the way to filling out your own list of ten films.

nobody said it was groundbreaking. they said it was a decent movie. as in, despite claims, it didn't outright suck like some people are saying, just because it's not the books, or they've seen it before, or whatever other reason. just because you've seen something done before, it doesn't make for an automatically bad movie. there's very few fully original ideas in the entertainment world. there's a number of people just on this board who's family went with them who didn't read the books and found the movie entertaining as well, so your theory doesn't fully hold up.
 

Robert Gray

Well-Known Member
nobody said it was groundbreaking. they said it was a decent movie. as in, despite claims, it didn't outright suck like some people are saying, just because it's not the books, or they've seen it before, or whatever other reason. just because you've seen something done before, it doesn't make for an automatically bad movie. there's very few fully original ideas in the entertainment world. there's a number of people just on this board who's family went with them who didn't read the books and found the movie entertaining as well, so your theory doesn't fully hold up.

My "theory" held up fine. It isn't a theory. ;) Moreover, I didn't say it was bad. I said it wasn't good. I said it failed for three simple reasons, in so far as putting butts in seats, and those reasons stand up. Or do you have another theory as to why it is doing so poorly at the box office?
 

recitador

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Sep 3, 2016
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My "theory" held up fine. It isn't a theory. ;) Moreover, I didn't say it was bad. I said it wasn't good. I said it failed for three simple reasons, in so far as putting butts in seats, and those reasons stand up. Or do you have another theory as to why it is doing so poorly at the box office?

your theory in regards to it "only doing well with those who read the books and have had time to grieve " part . . .as i pointed out, plenty of people who haven't read it, have liked the movie fine. the other reasons you mentioned are probably in fact why it's not doing well, coupled with overly harsh reviews from people who wanted it to be closer to the books. ETA: as i said before, saying this deserves an 18 on RT is being ridiculous, there's many worse movies out there.
 

Robert Gray

Well-Known Member
your theory in regards to it "only doing well with those who read the books and have had time to grieve " part . . .as i pointed out, plenty of people who haven't read it, have liked the movie fine. the other reasons you mentioned are probably in fact why it's not doing well, coupled with overly harsh reviews from people who wanted it to be closer to the books. ETA: as i said before, saying this deserves an 18 on RT is being ridiculous, there's many worse movies out there.

There are always worse movies out there. However, I've read a lot of those reviews and I can't really take issue with them. Most of those reviews were done by reviewers who haven't read the books. I have kind of just ignored reviews by anyone who has read the books (unless I respect them as I do some here). To take the film on its own merits, I decided to put more weight on people who don't have the books as baggage.

Rotten Tomatoes is pretty much on the beam. The Bell Curve is a harsh mistress but she judges all things equally. You take the gestalt and you tend to get a pretty honest answer. Look, if you enjoyed it... great. I don't begrudge you that. I didn't hate it. I didn't love it. To me, it was just another film. And to me, films are pass or fail. Not sucking doesn't mean the film is good. A film is either GOOD or it isn't. I guess in the end, I'd rather see a TERRIBLE movie than one that just is mediocre. At least a terrible movie is fun to make fun of.... will do its turn on some show like Mystery Science Theater. Mediocre films won't even get that. I want GREAT. I want something I know I will watch again, or want in my collection.
 

Rrty

Well-Known Member
Jun 4, 2007
1,394
4,588
I haven't seen the film, but just wanted to mention -- although someone probably has already done so; I checked around a little, but not too vigorously, so forgive if others have already said this -- that it is kind of humorous how the opening weekend gross was a little over $19 million. (And I guess the Rotten Tomato thing currently is around 18% for one of its metrics...you've got to figure that too was 19% at some point!)
 

Mr. Chips

Well-Known Member
May 16, 2017
81
357
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MS
There are always worse movies out there. However, I've read a lot of those reviews and I can't really take issue with them. Most of those reviews were done by reviewers who haven't read the books. I have kind of just ignored reviews by anyone who has read the books (unless I respect them as I do some here). To take the film on its own merits, I decided to put more weight on people who don't have the books as baggage.

Rotten Tomatoes is pretty much on the beam. The Bell Curve is a harsh mistress but she judges all things equally. You take the gestalt and you tend to get a pretty honest answer. Look, if you enjoyed it... great. I don't begrudge you that. I didn't hate it. I didn't love it. To me, it was just another film. And to me, films are pass or fail. Not sucking doesn't mean the film is good. A film is either GOOD or it isn't. I guess in the end, I'd rather see a TERRIBLE movie than one that just is mediocre. At least a terrible movie is fun to make fun of.... will do its turn on some show like Mystery Science Theater. Mediocre films won't even get that. I want GREAT. I want something I know I will watch again, or want in my collection.

I Agee with you on the fact that if it doesn't suck means it's automatically a good film. I would argue that the bell curve works both ways on RT, there's the audience responses to consider too. Statistics work the same way to evaluate thier responses.
 
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skimom2

Just moseyin' through...
Oct 9, 2013
15,683
92,168
USA
The long and short of it is the film failed for three reasons, none of them having anything to do with fans who read the books.

1. It isn't good. It isn't terrible. It isn't bad. It is simply isn't good.
2. The Studio didn't promote it at all. Thus, even the percentage of people who might have enjoyed it didn't turn up.
3. Aside from not being good, it brought nothing new to the table. This was Hollywood schlock we have seen a 100 times.

I'm going to be brutally honest here, tell the truth and shame the devil. The people who are most forgiving and seem to like the film are the very people everyone was certain would hate it. People who read the books by in large are forgiving that it bears no resemblance to them. Why? Well we had a year to kind of go through the stages of grief. We wanted to like it, so we kind of talked ourselves into it. :D We aren't the problem though. The vast majority of popcorn devouring, soda gargling movie-goers are less well-read than we. They haven't read the series. Some might not even know there were books. They are judging the film purely on how it compares to others and whether it delivers the goods. It didn't. The audiences didn't warm up to it, or at the very least didn't find it interesting enough to drop their shiny coins in the bucket. Audiences, well-read or not, are much more sophisticated than anyone wants to give them credit for these days. They have seen a lot of movies. If you want to wow them, get them into a theater, and blow their socks off you can't just recycle the same damn story you have sold them a thousand times just by changing the names of the protagonist and generic, evil for evil's sake villain. Give them something they haven't seen, don't dumb it down, but sharpen it up and you put butts in seats.

At the very least, you have to show them something they have seen before but in a new light. Let's get down and dirty show we? How about I do a point by point breakdown comparing this film to the Last Action Hero starring big Arnold. It too is about a boy who travels to another world and brings a larger than life hero into what is supposedly the real world. That is also not a good film. My point is that it is almost the same story, albeit one played for laughs rather than melodrama. In fact, I'm betting if I put my mind to it, I could come up with TEN films which revolve around three main characters with one White Hat, one Black Hat, and one catalyst (male or female) and the stakes being the end of the world/universe. They would all have pretty much the same plot. Reluctant, jaded hero brought back to fight the big bad by the intervention of the younger, innocent or at least optimistic catalyst. I'll even go so far as to say the reluctant, jaded hero will be stoic and gruff with a heart of gold. The villain will be crazy and just appear to delight in being evil for no apparent reason. I could go on, but I won't. Most of you reading this know EXACTLY what I'm talking about and in the course of my description you are probably already on the way to filling out your own list of ten films.
Have you seen the movie?
 

recitador

Speed Reader
Sep 3, 2016
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I Agee with you on the fact that if it doesn't suck means it's automatically a good film. I would argue that the bell curve works both ways on RT, there's the audience responses to consider too. Statistics work the same way to evaluate thier responses.

personally i think audience response is more valid. too many critics hate everything they see because they don't consider it highbrow enough. and there's been more than one "critically acclaimed" movie that bored me to tears. EDIT: in most cases anyway. there's some really terrible popular stuff lol.
 

Mr. Chips

Well-Known Member
May 16, 2017
81
357
39
MS
personally i think audience response is more valid. too many critics hate everything they see because they don't consider it highbrow enough. and there's been more than one "critically acclaimed" movie that bored me to tears. EDIT: in most cases anyway. there's some really terrible popular stuff lol.

I agree. Which is what I was trying to point out too. The DT has a 60% audience rating last I checked, which means more to me than critics. I pointed out on one of these threads before the merge that sharknado has over 80% fresh rating by critics, but 30 by audiences. They make these films for the audience so that's who's opinions matters to me.
 

recitador

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Sep 3, 2016
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Nothing floated away. It started off in the What went wrong thread and I moved his post about the movie here.

last i saw i couldn't get in that thread, just figured something went wrong somewhere during the merge. there was some weirdness going on the other day where a thread title for a non related thread showed up under this section, i think during some other merging, and led to a totally different thread. it's back now, so i guess construction is completed lol.
 

Dana Jean

Dirty Pirate Hooker, The Return
Moderator
Apr 11, 2006
53,634
236,697
The High Seas
last i saw i couldn't get in that thread, just figured something went wrong somewhere during the merge. there was some weirdness going on the other day where a thread title for a non related thread showed up under this section, i think during some other merging, and led to a totally different thread. it's back now, so i guess construction is completed lol.
Yes, you might have been trying to access it while things were changing around. Hopefully it is working for you now.
 

Robert Gray

Well-Known Member
I Agee with you on the fact that if it doesn't suck means it's automatically a good film. I would argue that the bell curve works both ways on RT, there's the audience responses to consider too. Statistics work the same way to evaluate thier responses.

Except that the audience responses aren't gathered the same way as the critics.... the critical reviews aren't done at Rotten Tomatoes. They are gathered by Rotten Tomatoes and added up from critics all over the places. There is no internal site bias or survey bias involved. The audience rating at Rotten Tomatoes is gathered largely on site and is made up, therefore, by people who frequent that site, and the FAKE people who are there to skew the results. ;) Make no mistake, Hollywood is fully aware now how much effect Rotten Tomatoes has on films and there are versions of "Like" farming for it coming on strong.

Long story short, the critics values and the audience values are gathered in very different ways and thus it problematic to put too much faith in the audience score. The audience score is most reliable when it is a GRAND SLAM or they HATED it, whereas the critics tend to be pretty much reliable because of the Bell Curve. So when I see the audiences is at 90%... I'm all over that action. When I see the audience is 30% or less... won't touch it with a ten foot pole. Anywhere in between is not worth my time.
 

Dana Jean

Dirty Pirate Hooker, The Return
Moderator
Apr 11, 2006
53,634
236,697
The High Seas
last i saw i couldn't get in that thread, just figured something went wrong somewhere during the merge. there was some weirdness going on the other day where a thread title for a non related thread showed up under this section, i think during some other merging, and led to a totally different thread. it's back now, so i guess construction is completed lol.
Also, these two threads are getting a bit blurry -- we might have to do some housecleaning again. I've left Marsha a message on the crossover of comments. Which is completely my shuffling.

I'm trying to keep reviews in the review thread, but then people comment about the review, which really ends up being a "what went wrong" sort of comment and maybe should be in that thread, but then the comments wouldn't make sense if they were separated from the review. blah blah blah --

When Mom gets home, she'll know what to do.
 

grin willard

"Keep the change, you filthy animal!"
Feb 21, 2017
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I know everyone wanted to CGI Clint Eastwood for Roland but let's put that discussion to rest please.

Clint CGI-ed himself jagermeister! He made a friggin' doppleganger. Scott Eastwood! Clint knew this day was coming and acted accordingly. Shaman that he is, he knew 30 years ago an Eastwood must make 'Dark Tower' and planted his seed! The producers dropped the ball.

36D77DD400000578-0-image-a-38_1470252532039.jpg


I'd used this song for the end credits.

 
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recitador

Speed Reader
Sep 3, 2016
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Clint CGI-ed himself jagermeister! He made a friggin' doppleganger. Scott Eastwood! Clint knew this day was coming and acted accordingly. Shaman that he is, he knew 30 years ago an Eastwood must make 'Dark Tower' and planted his seed! The producers dropped the ball.

36D77DD400000578-0-image-a-38_1470252532039.jpg

unfortunately he forgot to imbue him with any real grit, so . . . not so much lol